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I live in that neighborhood, and the second officer shot was our local "beat" cop, the guy who publishes his private cell phone number to the area homes so that they can call him first with any kind of question or local problem. He was advancing across the park toward the crisis home to see if he could help the SERT people. The shooter nailed him from about a hundred yards, a cop just trying to help his beat neighborhood.

I am often grieved to read anti-cop grousing on this messageboard, from writers who would never dream of putting their lives on the line for anybody, the Monday morning quarterbacks discecting any officer-involved shooting from the comfort of their keyboards. But police officers are out there every day, knowing full well that insane snipers can see their uniform just fine, and going to work anyway to protect their community. My hat is off to all coppers everywhere; blessings upon them.............................elsullo

(CORRECTION---it turns out to be the day-shift officer who was shot, not the swing-shift guy that I thought)
 
I am often grieved to read anti-cop grousing on this messageboard, from writers who would never dream of putting their lives on the line for anybody, the Monday morning quarterbacks discecting any officer-involved shooting from the comfort of their keyboards. But police officers are out there every day, knowing full well that insane snipers can see their uniform just fine, and going to work anyway to protect their community. My hat is off to all coppers everywhere; blessings upon them.............................elsullo


+1
 
Can you imagine all the protests if the perp had been shot in self defense?

Not much, would be my guess. This is just an average white Joe that had a home. He wasn't homeless or some worthless little gangbanger/street punk who's Mommy thinks was an angel, no matter how many times the fuzz had hauled him in.
 
Despite the news reports that the seriously injured officer will make a "full" recovery, I'm very concerned he will never "fully" recover. I got a text on Sunday morning and started making calls. My heart sank when I learned who it was. He introduced me to hunting, and is my hunting buddy. I stay with him and his family when I hunt in eastern Oregon. I've worked with him closely since '05, and he's one of the regulars (there is a group of 8-10 of us) that comes over to my place for semi-annual shindigs.

He got shot through the gut with a .243, so you can imagine the possible soft tissue damage as a result. I'm hopeful he will "fully" recover, but I won't be surprised if he isn't able to work the street ever again. He is very fit, which is a bonus, but a .243 is a real screamer. The public support has been great.
 
I am often grieved to read anti-cop grousing on this messageboard, from writers who would never dream of putting their lives on the line for anybody, the Monday morning quarterbacks discecting any officer-involved shooting from the comfort of their keyboards. But police officers are out there every day, knowing full well that insane snipers can see their uniform just fine, and going to work anyway to protect their community. My hat is off to all coppers everywhere; blessings upon them.............................elsullo

Agreed 100%. The anti law officer bull isn't just here. I deal with it on other boards as well. It sucks.

Despite the news reports that the seriously injured officer will make a "full" recovery, I'm very concerned he will never "fully" recover. I got a text on Sunday morning and started making calls. My heart sank when I learned who it was. He introduced me to hunting, and is my hunting buddy. I stay with him and his family when I hunt in eastern Oregon. I've worked with him closely since '05, and he's one of the regulars (there is a group of 8-10 of us) that comes over to my place for semi-annual shindigs.

He got shot through the gut with a .243, so you can imagine the possible soft tissue damage as a result. I'm hopeful he will "fully" recover, but I won't be surprised if he isn't able to work the street ever again. He is very fit, which is a bonus, but a .243 is a real screamer. The public support has been great.

Sorry to hear it is a friend of yours man.. I truly hope and pray he does fully recover.
 
Can you imagine all the protests if the perp had been shot in self defense?

What's wrong with this picture? The four police officers shot in Oregon so far this year were all shot by people with severe mental problems. In every case families and friends were worried for their safety and that of the public. Fifty years ago, being a danger to yourself and others got you an involuntary stay in a state mental hospital for evaluation. These days you get an appointment with a counselor on an outpatient basis 2 months from now.

Here's what it's like:

You're having heart attack symptoms. You can't call an ambulance or go to the emergency room because those services have been discontinued due to government cost savings. You call your doctor and he makes you an appointment with a heart specialist 2 months from now. Not knowing what else to do your wife calls 911. The police arrive and take you into custody because you're not obeying their commands. You wind up in a jail where you die of a heart attack.

It's not the fault of the police. They do what they are trained to do using the tools they know how to use. You can't fix a watch with a framing hammer. And if a hammer is all you've got to work with every problem pretty much looks like a nail.

We desperately need available emergency mental health care where people can be locked down, evaluated, and treated. It would save a lot of lives, both police and "perps".
 
I couldn't agree more with ZZZ on this. But we already have such a system (at least for now). First repsonders are trained to take into custody anyone they believe is a danger to themselves or others, and there are hospitals throughout the state with state contracts to provide such "acute psychiatric" care (as opposed to chronic or long-term care) to people who don't have insurance and can't afford it. First responders know where to take people, and they do every day.

In addition, anyone who believes a person is a danger to himself or others may petition the court for involuntary commitment of the individual. But you have to be motivated to go that route. And that's a state expense; we don't get that stuff for free.

The systems are in place, but they are underused (because people don't know about them or don't want to get involved) and at risk (because of budget cuts). Not everyone thinks it's a reasonable use of tax money to have a crazy guy with a gun and lots of pills locked up for evaluation, treated, or put in the State Hospital.
 
Psychiatric beds in Oregon are at a premium - contract or otherwise. On any given weekend, particularly in the Metro area, it can be almost impossible to find a bed; not a whole lot better during the week. In such instances, if someone is on a psychaitric hold, they willbe kept in the ER, taking up beds for other emergencies. ER's generally do not embrace this practice. Access to care in a community mental health setting is increasingly scarce. No one wants to fund this, and hospitals make no money through mental health care. Private practitioners by and large are not set up for emergent needs - they refer to crisis line and hospital.

If someone is on a hold, the criteria to remain so can be ambiguous. People cannot be held because of the possiblility of harm to self or others - there needs to be an imminent danger to self or others. If they plausibly deny this and do not want to be admitted, it's hard to hold them. The other asect would be an ability to provide for one's own needs. As well, different counties have different thresholds to keeping someone in the hospital involuntarily. Much of this is derived, right or wrong, from the protection of civil liberties.

Until the laws around these criteria change, it's hard to say what can change.

I would say that budget issues are at the forefront. As for systems being underutilized, I cannot say that is the case. If anything, they are overwhelmed - understaffed, under-funded, and increasingly have limited offerings. Again, no one wants to pay for this, and it doesn't lend itself well to a for-profit model (even if most hospitals are non-profit).

Things need to change; how is the question. It's not realistic to expect police officers to have to get used to this...
 
I couldn't agree more with ZZZ on this. But we already have such a system (at least for now). First repsonders are trained to take into custody anyone they believe is a danger to themselves or others, and there are hospitals throughout the state with state contracts to provide such "acute psychiatric" care (as opposed to chronic or long-term care) to people who don't have insurance and can't afford it. First responders know where to take people, and they do every day.

In addition, anyone who believes a person is a danger to himself or others may petition the court for involuntary commitment of the individual. But you have to be motivated to go that route. And that's a state expense; we don't get that stuff for free.

The systems are in place, but they are underused (because people don't know about them or don't want to get involved) and at risk (because of budget cuts). Not everyone thinks it's a reasonable use of tax money to have a crazy guy with a gun and lots of pills locked up for evaluation, treated, or put in the State Hospital.

This is how it really is:

Minds on the Edge

Skip the first 1:40...
 
We got the word today that he underwent a second surgery and came through with flying colors. There are no more planned or anticipated surgeries, and his prognosis has been upgraded to a full recovery. He'll be recuperating for a while, but he should be 100%. Thank God!

Getting someone committed on a mental hold is very, very rare. We take people to hospitals on mental holds all the time, and they are almost always let loose by the hospital staff shortly thereafter. Our mental health system is a joke. I'm not one for big government, but mental institutions (or whatever the PC term is this week) is something we pay for either way. Either the mentals roam the streets and inflict damage on society, or we pay to house them in a "safe" environment. We pay either way.
 
We got the word today that he underwent a second surgery and came through with flying colors. There are no more planned or anticipated surgeries, and his prognosis has been upgraded to a full recovery. He'll be recuperating for a while, but he should be 100%. Thank God!

That is awesome. Tell him there are others out here thinkin about him. Many of us sincerely appreciate what he does.
 

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