Shooting in Gig Harbor, WA. Legal?

[xymotic]

So the way the news is describing it at this point is that it's basically a farm / ranch.

A person drove up the driveway and wandered around a little bit.


Homeowner came out of a building that looks like maybe the barn and asked the person 'who are you what are you doing here'


The man walked away or fled and apparently entered a home.

So the homeowner shot him in the back in the foyer.


There's a bunch of facts we don't know yet, but assuming the shooter owned the whole compound, was it legal in wa to shoot the guy?

Does it matter if the house was empty or maybe had wife and kids inside?

At first they said he got shot on the porch, now they are saying he set foot in the house. Strictly form a legal prospective does it matter?

"what if" the shooter is a close neighbor and not the homeowner?

Read More

 

[billdeserthills]

The way you tell it, where a man is shot in the back without carrying a weapon, No way is that legal
cept in Texas....maybe after walking past a No Trespassing sign

 

[Frankenrifle]

Man runs from me after crossing my property line and he's heading to my house where my wife and/or kid/s are...he's a threat and will be shot in the back, front, side, or whichever plane he presents to my sights.

I don't recall anything saying you can't shoot them in the back when they are not only ON your property but IN your home. If he indeed did not respond to being asked what his business there was then he could have been a credible threat.

 

[letrain]

Washington state law is actually tougher than the castle doctrine. If the wasnt running toward to and into the house be wouldn't of been shot. He could of just answered the question. He could of been a Canadian molester in the states (like recent story). The property owner has no idea who this man is. And the fact he is dead is his own fault. Given the current facts. You can't fix stupid.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[PX4WA]

there's always more to the story than is being told... so hard to tell what really happened...

but you can shoot a person in the back if you have reason to believe that your life or somebody else's is in danger...

if you knew the house was empty and he was running away from you... then you will need to get a good lawyer...

so there is no one solid answer... the answer is "it depends"...

 

[xymotic]

there's always more to the story than is being told... so hard to tell what really happened...

but you can shoot a person in the back if you have reason to believe that your life or somebody else's is in danger...

if you knew the house was empty and he was running away from you... then you will need to get a good lawyer...

so there is no one solid answer... the answer is "it depends"...

So there was recently a case where a Marine caught a guy stealing his truck.

And at the time there was some discussion that if the guy was simply robbing the truck, then shooting would be bad. But if it was proven he was stealing it, then it was over 1k or something and a felony = justified.
The guys girlfriend getaway was in a stolen car so I think the marine has a good defense there. (and I don;t think he was charged, right?)

In that case it "seems" the bad guy fled to the car, the marine fired a few into the engine block, the bad guy emerged with a gun and was popped by the marine. (the marine had GREAT grouping and gun control too btw he didn't spray 90 bullets at a truck and hit a tailgate 3x like LAPD does )

Like you said there's always a lot more to it, but hypothetically if the bad guy hadn't popped out with a gun, would shooting the car be legal in WA?


In this newest one, is just running towards the house enough? Is the porch considered 'the house?'

 

[ZigZagZeke]

If my wife and kid are in the house and he runs in through the front door I will shoot him in the back every time. I don't know that he's unarmed. I don't know what he'll be able to do to them before I get there. I see it as just like the cops with their 21 foot rule. Put a cop in my place and he goes free every time.

 

[PX4WA]

Wa allows deadly force to stop a felony in progress...

Knowing that it is a felony and not a misdemeanor in the heat of the moment is tricky...

That marine could have been charged if it was just a prowler that ran away.

 

[ATCclears]

A question related to the OP's question...

I have acreage, house, barn, outbuilding, and clearly-posted No Trespassing signs. Let's say my wife and daughter are in the barn, someone comes on to the property, acts in a threatening or creepy manner, and my wife and daughter call out for help. Can I shoot and have some level of confidence that WA State laws will be in my favor?

Similarly, what if they are out in a pasture, encounter Joe Meth, and call for help. Can I shoot and have some level of confidence that WA State laws will be in my favor?

In both scenarios, it is a situation where we are on our property but outside of the house.

I've always wondered about this. I don't expect a legal and binding opinion on this, but if anyone is aware of a similar case I'd love to know about it.

Peter

 

[PX4WA]

If my wife and kid are in the house and he runs in through the front door I will shoot him in the back every time. I don't know that he's unarmed. I don't know what he'll be able to do to them before I get there. I see it as just like the cops with their 21 foot rule. Put a cop in my place and he goes free every time.

The news indicates this is the current story.. if it happened as reported the homeowner had the right to defend his family as the man was not running away but into an occupied dwelling where her could do more harm...probably the guy was high on something

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.


Now, in my mind, this guy was fitting right in to this part: "reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished"....but that's up to the prosecutor and jury to decide. But I'd have to say it was ok.

 

[oknow]

If my wife and kid are in the house and he runs in through the front door I will shoot him in the back every time. I don't know that he's unarmed. I don't know what he'll be able to do to them before I get there. I see it as just like the cops with their 21 foot rule. Put a cop in my place and he goes free every time.

but they fall under a different law than we do.

 

[BigStick]

One-eyed Ross has it right with posting the RCW.

If a "reasonable man" would be afraid of great personal injury, or would think they are attempting to commit a felony, then you are justified in shooting.

On your property, moving aggressively towards a family member and not responding to commands = clean shoot.

 

[Sstrand]

Do what the cops do . . . Shoot first and then look for someone to ask the "right" questions.

Sheldon

 

[ATCclears]

KIRO TV is reporting that the perp has a lengthy criminal history, and as of now the homeowner will not be charged for shooting the perp.

Peter

 

[xymotic]

Wa allows deadly force to stop a felony in progress...

Knowing that it is a felony and not a misdemeanor in the heat of the moment is tricky...

That marine could have been charged if it was just a prowler that ran away.

Yeah but "what if" he shooting the engine block to stop an escape and that was it. is that justified deadly force or is that just unlawfully discharging a firearm in city limits?

Cus it kinda seems to me like shooting the block is just 'wrong' and he'd have been more justified if he'd killed the girlfriend outright. Which is kind of weird to think about.

This bubblegum gets too complicated for my teeny brain.

 

[xymotic]

A question related to the OP's question...

I have acreage, house, barn, outbuilding, and clearly-posted No Trespassing signs. Let's say my wife and daughter are in the barn, someone comes on to the property, acts in a threatening or creepy manner, and my wife and daughter call out for help. Can I shoot and have some level of confidence that WA State laws will be in my favor?

Similarly, what if they are out in a pasture, encounter Joe Meth, and call for help. Can I shoot and have some level of confidence that WA State laws will be in my favor?

In both scenarios, it is a situation where we are on our property but outside of the house.

I've always wondered about this. I don't expect a legal and binding opinion on this, but if anyone is aware of a similar case I'd love to know about it.

Peter

I guess it comes down to what's 'threatening and creepy'

There was the case in texas where a man discovered his daughter being molested by a stranger and they both had their pants down and the father beat the man to death. Can't say I find too much fault in that case either, seems to me exactly what any other father would do.

 

[xymotic]

KIRO TV is reporting that the perp has a lengthy criminal history, and as of now the homeowner will not be charged for shooting the perp.

Peter

So the other thing that struck me as a little bit 'odd' about this story is that the homeowner was armed at all. I don't carry so maybe I just don't 'get it' but it seems to me that on a rural plot like that way set back from the road and private, in a nice place like gig harbor, it just seems weird that a guy would be carrying the weight while working in the barn. Who knows maybe he just got home from town himself or something but it just seems kinda strange to be carrying in that circumstance. Do most of you guys that Carry put the gun on with your socks in the morning and put it in the side table when you go to sleep at night?

 

[PX4WA]

Yeah but "what if" he shooting the engine block to stop an escape and that was it. is that justified deadly force or is that just unlawfully discharging a firearm in city limits?
.

per WA state law that is an illegal discharge of a firearm...

silly enough, but warning shots can actually get you in trouble.. if you fear for your life, then you shoot to stop the threat, if your life was not in danger, then you do not shoot anything even in the air...

a person escaping in a vehicle away from you is no longer a threat and if you shot at them you could be charged... unless that person was driving towards another person that they could run over

technically if they are committing a felony (felony grand theft auto) and you know that for a fact... you may be able to use the law in your defense, but the jury will be deciding it for you (expect to have to go to court)...

personally I will only shoot if there is imminent threat to me or my family's life... otherwise I don't want to deal with the emotional trauma of shooting a man in the back... call me a sissy, but I like sleeping well at night...

and those I've talked to who have actually killed somebody in self defense, they don't sleep too good...

those that think they can sleep well after a clean shoot, haven't really shot at anybody and used deadly force..

 

[PX4WA]

So the other thing that struck me as a little bit 'odd' about this story is that the homeowner was armed at all.

you unfortunately are the odd part in this statement...

people in the rural area carry on them 24/7 as there are wild animals to deal with and 2 legged critters that are high on meth..

heck i live in the burbs and I carry while I work in my garage...