Shooting in Denver 12 DOA

[G1GRANDEUR]

"No, stricter gun laws would not have kept a maniac from slaughtering innocents. Determined people, such as this guy clearly was, can get guns despite the law.

No, armed citizens in the theater crowd would not have kept the maniac from slaughtering innocents. They were ambushed, in the dark, and hit with tear gas before he started shooting. I'm glad anyone who was armed - and I'll bet there was one or two - had the sense to focus on getting as many folks out alive as possible. I've been gassed (as part of training many moons ago); forget those TV supermen who shake it off, wipe their eyes and take out all the bad guys. I suspect fewer than one person in ten thousand could take a face full of tear gas then effectively counter a heavily armed and armored assailant wearing black, in the dark, without endangering any of the 100+ panicked people running for their lives. Uncontrolled gunfire would have doubled the casualties.

But, and here's the really, really important part:
What happened in Aurora is not a talking point.
What happened in Aurora is not a political opportunity.
What happened in Aurora is not a photo op.

What happened in Aurora is a sick and twisted individual killed at least a dozen people and wounded three times as many. People are suffering. People lost loved ones. People are in shock, in pain, in despair. Give them your prayers, give them your compassion, give them your support.

But by all that's holy, don't give them your rhetoric."

 

[billstaf]

Skang, you are right of course. This is nothing but some nut taking out his fantasies/frustrations on a whole bunch of innocent unknown people.

If everybody could just grasp that single idea, then we could all treat this incident for what it is; An isolated act of craziness.

Unfortunately, we all know that this type of thing will bring out a whole new spate of calls from the perpetually fearful to limit citizen access to firearms and ammunition. We already know that limited access to guns most likely wouldn't have made much difference here. This kid would have found some other way to mangle a bunch of people. Nevertheless, we should all brace for another attack on our right to own and use firearms. Since this nitwit managed to get hold of an AR15, we can most likely expect another version of the assault weapons ban show up soon.

 

[riverrat373]

This and all shootings like it are horrific and my thoughts and prayers go out to all the families of the victims! This is going to have a very, very bad effect on gun owners in this country. As 2nd Amendment supporters we must remain calm when responding to those who are calling for the banning of firearms. Getting angry with those misinformed individuals will not do our cause any good! The old saying...."You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar" holds very true. We must counteract emotional response with facts and reason.

 

[billstaf]

Here is a link to a Wall Street Journal article. Mayor Bloomberg is calling for stricter gun controls. There is a poll - please be sure to take the poll.

Also look at the results so far. (You will like this)

New York Mayor Bloomberg Calls for Tougher Gun Policy - Metropolis - WSJ

 

[drew]

Here is a link to a Wall Street Journal article. Mayor Bloomberg is calling for stricter gun controls. There is a poll - please be sure to take the poll.

Also look at the results so far. (You will like this)

New York Mayor Bloomberg Calls for Tougher Gun Policy - Metropolis - WSJ

When has Bloomberg called for anything but stricter gun control? He does it pretty often.

Bloomberg said he believes the country is in "big trouble." The mayor has often said he defends Americans' rights to own guns, but in his remarks Friday he suggested more guns are part of the problem. Some Americans believe "‘I need more guns to protect myself,'" the mayor said, but "that strategy doesn't work."​

This coming from someone who always has an armed security detail. Sounds like he believes he needs more guns to protect himself.

I think Bloomberg's beliefs regarding gun ownership and mine differ greatly.

 

[4Freedom]

Well, the anti-RKBA liberal media is out in full force:
Blood on hands of Obama, Mitt and NRA! * - NY Daily News

Relatively speaking, the number of terrorist acts like these are still relatively rare and despite being horrific, they are not a significant source of murders in the country. Disarming the American public, in a society so overrun by gangs, druggies and other types of violent criminals will result in many more murders and law-abiding citizens will be unarmed and helpless to defend themselves against gangs of armed criminals who now know it is open-season against defenseless sheep. This was what stirred up the whole Washington DC gun ban debate. So many innocent people were being terrorized by armed criminals with guns that the people spoke out demanding they have the right to even the score.

My main fear about gun control is there is no limits to what the leaders and the brainwashed sheeple will impose on what is good for us. They are not necessarily rational in their decision-making, but rather impulsive, emotional and lacking any type of analytic reasoning. We can say what they do is mostly based on fear.

As far as New York City, being a safer city from Emperor Bloomberg's gun ban, I think people are totally ignorant on the type of statistics being reported. Maybe he cleaned up Manhattan, but cities like the Bronx, Harlem and parts of Brooklyn and Queens are still war zones. Also, New York City has the highest rate of knife-related murders and assaults in the nation. They say more people are now murdered with knives in New York City than people are murdered with guns in other cities. That isn't to say gun-related homicides are not high throughout the city as well. I've heard New York City is still suffering from a lot of gun-crime, despite guns being illegal. In most parts of New York City the murder rate is twice that of Seattle and in many parts of the city it can be even ten-twenty times higher, such as Brownsville, Harlem, Bronx, etc.

 

[HBIII]

I haven't read all of the responses in this thread yet, but did anyone look at the 'poll' questions near the bottom of the article in the OPs link? The four choices are all fear based BS! Option 5 should be civilians protecting themselves!

 

[PDXSparky]

I think Bloomberg's beliefs regarding gun ownership and mine differ greatly.

+1. I'd bet that for us, gun control = firm grip

 

[biggie24420]

Stuff like this should be a wake up call to all responsible citizens.... we need more people legally armed. I just wonder how things would have turned out if there were a few conceal carriers. I personally think there is more to this story.... I think there is a good chance that this was a false flag and if you disagree that is fine but just be an adult about it. I don't need to be told that I need a tin foil hat or that I am a conspiracy theorist.

I understand that lives were lost that day and that is very sad. I saw a pic on facebook of a young man and woman (I would guess in late teens or early twenties).... he placed himself over her and he was killed but she survived because of what he did. Can you imagine being on a date or whatever and you are all excited about going out and spending some time with your significant other... next thing you know there is smoke and cs and you hear gun shot. This kinda thing makes me so mad.

I just want to take an anti gun person by the neck and drag them to the crime scene and show them what a great place a GUN FREE ZONE is and that their stupid anti gun laws didn't do jack crap to save lives. You and I have to fight fire with fire.... maybe it would be a great world if no one had guns. As flawed as the human nature is, the nut jobs will always find a way to kill and we can't blame the tools aka guns, it's the flawed mind of the person that is the problem.

Last time I went to the movies, I saw a green sign indicating no firearms.... they also don't want you to bring your own snacks and drinks either. Guess what? I just smile and pay for my ticket and enjoy my movie with my G23 and the munchies I bought from the store next to the movie theater. I think that if they are gonna have the audacity to take away my right to legally carry, that they should have armed guards or undercover armed guards. I can understand if you go to someone's house and they don't want you to carry inside but it's a public place where people go and so what if it's privately owned? can they make a law to bring the dead back?

You know the presstitutes and the politicians are gonna take advantage of this because they have no shame and they have no respect for the dead. IMO this is also why I think there is more to the story as far as the possibility of a false flag goes. Unfortunately the sheep with not see it this way and they will believe whatever the brainwash media tells them... now days a lot of people don't have the ability to do their own research and come to their own conclusion as to what might have really happened. Somethings we may never know about this tragic incident, but I'll be darned if I am just gonna take things at face value and go with the flow. You don't have to believe what I believe but be an adult and keep an open mind... I respect your opinion and I ask you do the same with me.

To all the victims who are not with us anymore.... R.I.P

 

[biggie24420]

I haven't read all of the responses in this thread yet, but did anyone look at the 'poll' questions near the bottom of the article in the OPs link? The four choices are all fear based BS! Option 5 should be civilians protecting themselves!

Bingo! it is my life, it is my responsibility. Trust me when I tell you, if I could clip a cop to my belt and carry him or her with me... it would be wonderful. I would have no worries about explaining my actions in court, I would not have to take a life.

 

[revjen45]

The perp in this horrific crime is evil, but certainly not stupid. He was a/the scheduled speaker on RNA markers as indicators of criminal tendencies. This would indicate that he has the chemistry skills to create such examples of modern killing technology as Tabun, Sarin, mustard gas, chlorine, or various improvised explosives. If meth heads can make their drug of choice in a plastic bottle a doctorate level neuro science major could certainly create chemical weapons or effective explosive/incendiary weapons, which he did and left as booby traps in his apartment. He was decked out in ballistic armor better than a typical SWAT cop, so pistol fire would likely not have been effective, and it isn't practical to carry a long gun about in daily life. Unfortunately, there is no fix for latent crazy, and it appears that this particular incident doesn't have any ready preventatives.

 

[4Freedom]

Yeah, I Know I will be insulted for this, but I am going back to what I originally advocated for, legalizing open/concealed rifle carry. I am sorry but as someone else said you fight fire with fire. The 2nd Amendment said the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Yes, I know it is sad world where people need guns and to carry them to defend themselves against whackos, but we don't live in the 1950s anymore. The world is crazy. The way I look at things, either the government abolishes gun control and people have the right to defend themselves in any legal manner that is feasible or they will just try to ban all the guns, which would create a powerful mafia black-market and every whackjob, gang banger and thug will be armed with whatever they like. On the other hand, every law-abiding citizen will be helpless.

Countries with open-rifle carry, such as Switzerland and Israel have very low rates of these type of attacks. Maniacs running into places with a rifle is less appealing when everyone else has rifles. A guy walked into a school with a fully automatic AK47 and shot up a bunch of kids in Israel, within a few minutes an man armed with a fully auto rifle shot the guy dead. Had this been the USA, there would have been several more casualties as we waited for SWAT and other underpaid, overworked government workers to come and save us.

Of course, I am hoping this will be a rare incident and we don't have to worry about it. There is no doubt in my mind, that banning guns will be the only solution our government will want to take in resolving an issue that was solved years ago by our Constitution.

 

[lamrith]

Has there been any proof he was in Ballistic gear? Don't trust the media, they don't know a ballistic vest from a tuxedo. The only proof I have seen so far is that the vest he was shown to have purchased was not ballistic, it was just a gear holding vest. There is a copy of his purchase receipt out on the internet showing it and a couple of magazine pouches he bought.

Even ballistic gear you know you are hit, it is not Robocop invincibility suit. Ask any Swap or LEO that has been shot wearing one. It's like a sledge hammer hit. Th vest works by dissapating and absorbing the energy from the round and not letting it thru. That energy has to go someplace and that place is the body of the wearer.

Not to mention it is obvious the guy wanted to live, since he surrendered to police without incident, betting 1-2 rounds on body, even if he had ballistic gear and he would have called it a day sooner.

 

[MikeE]

Did I say something wrong? Everyone should be able to carry a rifle/shotgun with them anywhere they are legally able to carry any other type of gun..

Sounds like you think only gun nuts would do that.. And we wouldn't to upset the Brady Campaign. In places like Israel, carrying rifles to the movie theaters is not a big deal, why should it be here?

I'm sure everyone carrying long guns to the movies would make for some very exciting cinema, but not sure they are the right tools for the job. A Glock with RMR sight is more like it. But really it's about mind set, as Dan-O put it in the OFA thread yesterday. With the right mindset, a knife could do the job.

 

[michaels]

First, my prayers go to the families of those killed.

And now that we have the "pros" and "antis" both using this for political purposes,

I'd like to throw in my ideas.....

I personally don't think the answer to stopping these massacres lies in more or less guns.

I think access to mental health services, a strong middle class and a social safety net would reduce shootings like these.

I understand that these things probably wouldn't have prevented this particular shooting.

But from the sounds of it, a handgun would have also been ineffectual.

4freedom, you brought up Switzerland.

They have the things I listed.

There is no open carry of rifles. Not unless you are in the military.

These are things I witnessed from living in Switzerland, not things "I heard"