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Well it's a fight. Whether it is a gun fight or a physical fight call it what you want. It's a competition of life and I want to win. Some people think I'm a dick. And I'm sure some think you're a dick. We can't please and be friends with everyone. Not everyone gets the same version of me. As long as I'm alive I don't care what people think of me. I'm sure it's the same with BJ.

I'm REAL sure it is.

I'm not everybody's cup of tea. For sure. But I was taught to be polite, until the sheite starts flowing, and to take others into consideration. I guess "do unto others" has a diff meaning for some.


C'mon guys, nobody thinks you're dicks as far as you know.


:D
 
A good friend of mine, Msgt in the USAF was brutally murdered about 10 yrs ago. Black, from Chicago. Family man 3 daughters with one adopted. Murdered by some Dbag now doing life. Looking up my friends name and date it's hard to find any articles.

People like this don't get the publicity they deserve. While I don't like to see anyone die that should still be breathing behind bars or not, this theater idiots are playing out for these grown azz men or young thugs in training actually sickens me. There are good people that deserves recognition for their lives but disappear into nothing. Floyd will be acknowledged for decades if not longer in history books as a hero.

Edit to add, people like Floyd. Far from the best of the best, but people riot for their name.
 
Many, like myself, are just thinking and talking through it. Understanding the things we can't understand is not an easy task.

How do we come to understand this sort of violence? Really, it's a ton of things, and there likely isn't one good answer.
Understand this: This guy, like about 90% of his brethren, was evaluated for suicidal ideation involving suicide by cop a year ago. The authorities (FBI), as usual, did nothing about him. That's because we have no facilities in this country to deal with such people. Instead of locking them up for involuntary treatment, we allow them to walk the streets, supervised only by their untrained and overworked friends and relatives. Instead we go after the tools they might use to wreak havoc on society in a misguided attempt to make the whole world into a padded room so they can't hurt anyone.

HEY PEOPLE!!!! IT'S NOT WORKING!!! Or hadn't you noticed?
 
Understand this: This guy, like about 90% of his brethren, was evaluated for suicidal ideation involving suicide by cop a year ago. The authorities (FBI), as usual, did nothing about him. That's because we have no facilities in this country to deal with such people. Instead of locking them up for involuntary treatment, we allow them to walk the streets, supervised only by their untrained and overworked friends and relatives. Instead we go after the tools they might use to wreak havoc on society in a misguided attempt to make the whole world into a padded room so they can't hurt anyone.

HEY PEOPLE!!!! IT'S NOT WORKING!!! Or hadn't you noticed?
So what would lawmakers propose?

Should their be more rigid mental screenings to purchase or operate things? Instead of removing items after, performing pre-crime, and violating rights?

Is there any science that is repeatable to prove someone mentally unstable?

I can likely ask a ton of questions on these sort of things.

Especially as it becomes a finer line between pre-crime and loss of constitutionally protected rights.

We don't have law on these matters really. Without it we simply wait and watch it continue to happen until some form of law is created on mental health and the second amendment. Since the science behind mental health isn't truly absolute, it gets really muddy trying to make law on such a thing.

Besides, a true constitutionalist would state his 2nd amendment rights were violated when they removed his shotgun via the red flag law.

I won't be surprised if they use this case to strengthen red flag laws, as it clearly didn't restrict him from continuing to purchase further firearms.
 
Understand this: This guy, like about 90% of his brethren, was evaluated for suicidal ideation involving suicide by cop a year ago. The authorities (FBI), as usual, did nothing about him. That's because we have no facilities in this country to deal with such people. Instead of locking them up for involuntary treatment, we allow them to walk the streets, supervised only by their untrained and overworked friends and relatives. Instead we go after the tools they might use to wreak havoc on society in a misguided attempt to make the whole world into a padded room so they can't hurt anyone.

HEY PEOPLE!!!! IT'S NOT WORKING!!! Or hadn't you noticed?
If we're laying blame at the foot of the tool, then we need to have governmental controls on:
Baseball bats
Steel pipes
Hammers
Knives
Screwdrivers
Swords
Machettes
AT Cross pens and pencils
Rocks
Sticks
2x4's
Pneumatic fastening devices

The list goes on and on and on... The problem isn't the tool, it's the human operator. Until someone figures out how to legislate the condition of the heart, we're lost. Or perhaps we just need to get back to basics and people need to believe in a higher power....
 
So what would lawmakers propose?

Should their be more rigid mental screenings to purchase or operate things? Instead of removing items after, performing pre-crime, and violating rights?

Is there any science that is repeatable to prove someone mentally unstable?

I can likely ask a ton of questions on these sort of things.

Especially as it becomes a finer line between pre-crime and loss of constitutionally protected rights.

We don't have law on these matters really. Without it we simply wait and watch it continue to happen until some form of law is created on mental health and the second amendment. Since the science behind mental health isn't truly absolute, it gets really muddy trying to make law on such a thing.

Besides, a true constitutionalist would state his 2nd amendment rights were violated when they removed his shotgun via the red flag law.

I won't be surprised if they use this case to strengthen red flag laws, as it clearly didn't restrict him from continuing to purchase further firearms.
I have a solution, a National, comprehensive, mental health care process and system. Where people like this can get the help they need and not be left wandering about society where they have the capacity to take and destroy lives. This experiment of housing the mentally ill in neighborhood group homes and medicating them seems to have failed in a grandiose way. Like everything the government puts its hands to...
 
I have a solution, a National, comprehensive, mental health care process and system. Where people like this can get the help they need and not be left wandering about society where they have the capacity to take and destroy lives. This experiment of housing the mentally ill in neighborhood group homes and medicating them seems to have failed in a grandiose way. Like everything the government puts its hands to...
The question stands, do people placed here lose their constitutionally protected rights?

That was a lot of the reasoning the nut houses closed in the first place. Their constitutionality.

In many ways folks were unanimously in agreement to close the centers due to the treatment and loss of rights of the individuals. Much like the problems we are facing with the prison system, where many of those that should be going end up. Is it irony at least to state that the society is now wanting to reopen them because?

Last I checked it wasn't a felony to be insane.
 
I say give everyone a gun. Survival of the fittest. For those that can't tell that's sarcasm.... or is it?
 
"Mass shooting" is a not clearly defind term. So called "Mass shootings" happen all the time in high crime/gang cities but nobody talks about it.

Sorry for the lifes lost bit the real issue lays elswhere. Lots of health plans barely cover therapy costs let alone the runaround you have to do to get in somwhere. A person whos got problems like that couldnt even get quick help if they wanted to. "Oh yeah we need prior autorization and then we can get you in soonest is 2 months out".
 
They cannot ever properly administer Obummer care, or handle back ground checks, or even deal with the covid shots, and were supposed to let them handle mental health issues? Any time the gov gets involved, it's sure to bugger it all up good!
 
I think the biggest thing that bothers me about this specific incident. As well as similar ones. Is how we judge the entire life of a person on the one illegal act.

He murdered a bunch of people. That, as far as I can see, was the one criminal act. It's an ugly and heinous act, but that's where he lost his rights

Up until then, folks here would of likely argued to protect his second amendment rights to keep and bear arms against the red flag.

It's not a felony to be on an FBI watchlist. I do not want that to become a reason to lose my rights, nor should anyone else here. Stating this says nothing.

It's not a felony to be insane. Mental health shouldn't have anything to do with your constitutional rights as an American citizen. I would hope everyone here agrees. Otherwise go ahead and vote yes to the next red flag law upgrade

Some of the dialogue here is very much inline with those willing to take rights away.

Please do not take my context and skew it to what you want to hear. I am in no way stating this kids acts of murder are justifiable. He committed an egregious crime, only God can judge him for this at this point.

As for trying to rationalize his past and piece together why? Well, I do not have the answers, but I won't pick apart his past as if he was born a criminal and everything he did was wrong, because up until he committed the crime of murder, he wasn't.
 
The question stands, do people placed here lose their constitutionally protected rights?

That was a lot of the reasoning the nut houses closed in the first place. Their constitutionality.

In many ways folks were unanimously in agreement to close the centers due to the treatment and loss of rights of the individuals. Much like the problems we are facing with the prison system, where many of those that should be going end up. Is it irony at least to state that the society is now wanting to reopen them because?

Last I checked it wasn't a felony to be insane.
This individual had been identified as a potential "suicide by cop" candidate. The FBI were aware and turned their back. Nothing was done. He wasn't identified as a threat, even after the FBI took a look. So we have a much bigger problem in this country...

To answer the question of should these people, if hospitalized, lose their constitutional rights... perhaps some of those rights should be suspended until such time as a clean and clear bill of mental health is received. In this case, no longer suicidal either self inflicted or desiring police infliction.

Turning our collective backs on it, or saying it's ok to be mentally defective to the point one wants to kill or be killed, and allowing such persons unbridled access to firearms doesn't do anything for our society as a whole.

I believe everyone has a right to firearms access, as I believe everyone has a right to free speech. But as the ole statement goes, one really cannot stand in a middle of a crowded theatre and scream "Fire" to exercise their freedom of speech anymore more than one can let someone with a documented history, as this turd had, free access to firearms. As doing so will only result in more and more of these incidents. And in this particular case I point to the FBI as co-conspirators... They are just as responsible as the dweeb who pulled the trigger.
 
A good friend of mine, Msgt in the USAF was brutally murdered about 10 yrs ago. Black, from Chicago. Family man 3 daughters with one adopted. Murdered by some Dbag now doing life. Looking up my friends name and date it's hard to find any articles.

People like this don't get the publicity they deserve. While I don't like to see anyone die that should still be breathing behind bars or not, this theater idiots are playing out for these grown azz men or young thugs in training actually sickens me. There are good people that deserves recognition for their lives but disappear into nothing. Floyd will be acknowledged for decades if not longer in history books as a hero.

Edit to add, people like Floyd. Far from the best of the best, but people riot for their name.
Honestly they would pull down a statue of Fredrick Douglas for being a Republican, and put one up of Floyd..
 
The skill level of both professionals and civilians span the whole range. I have trained with and competed with both.
the performance of an individual will be defined by their training.
not their occupation
 
Mad Maxine Waters is at it again, calling for violence and jeopardizing the Chovin trials outcome! That Harpy needs to be in Jail for inciting riots, but Democrap, so they will do nothing about her rants! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Yet, they tried to impeach Trump for inciting riots and "insurrection" on Jan 6th, and he didn't call out for violence or anything like what Mad Maxine has done. AGAIN! That evil witch needs to burn in hell!
 

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