Shooting across from Judkins Park

charros93 · Aug 10, 2012

So I was driving southbound on 23rd Ave S looking for Judkins Park (never been there before) as my kids just started football and cheerleading there. As soon as I saw the park to my right I heard 6 to 8 shots fired directly to my left at a store parking lot no more than 20 feet away. I had my pistol on me as I always do, but instead of focusing on identifying a shooter and possibly drawing my pistol, I put my head down untill the shooting stopped, and then hit the gas and got outta there.

Did i do the right thing as a CCW holder?

Riot · Aug 10, 2012

charros93 said:
So I was driving southbound on 23rd Ave S looking for Judkins Park (never been there before) as my kids just started football and cheerleading there. As soon as I saw the park to my right I heard 6 to 8 shots fired directly to my left at a store parking lot no more than 20 feet away. I had my pistol on me as I always do, but instead of focusing on identifying a shooter and possibly drawing my pistol, I put my head down untill the shooting stopped, and then hit the gas and got outta there.

Did i do the right thing as a CCW holder?

Having not been there I can (conditionally) say "Yes, you did do the right thing." Running in, pistol out, is a sure fire way to get yourself shot (if not by the subject, but by police or other gun owners). Seeing an incident unfold in front of you ensures that you're not shooting at another CCWer as well.

The main thing is to be alert and proactive to threats...shots in the distance means staying away from that area. You should seek cover from the direction you think the shots are from and constantly assess threats (just because the threat isn't in your area doesn't mean it will stay that way). If it is a crowded park, there will be enough people calling the police...if you have your family/loved ones there just get OUT- exit immediately and worry about everyone else when you turn the news on at home.

Nwcid · Aug 10, 2012

IF you are not part of the situation, don't become part of it ESPECIALLY if you don't know for sure what is going on. Now IF you are in a situation where you have a pretty good idea what is going on and you see another person at risk, and is something you think you can handle then you will have to decide from there what to do.

You said you "put my head down". Not sure I understand your logic here. The door of your car is going to do very little to protect you (this is not TV) but might put you at a tactical disadvantage since you would not be able to see what is going on around you or if the "situation" was headed your way.......

Also if you did not you might consider getting ahold of the Police and giving a statement of ANYTHING you saw or HEARD. Things to you that may not seem like a big deal could make or break a case for LEO's.

charros93 · Aug 10, 2012

Thanks for the responses. I had no clue as to what was going on in that parking lot. As I was rolling to a stop at the intersection all of this unfolded. I had no idea who was shooting or what direction the shots were traveling. Ive heard gunfire off in the distance plenty of times, but never been right there in the middle of it. Its a reality check for sure. Even being armed one could easily get taken out by some random bubblegum and never see it coming. Crazy world.

Can anyone recommend some sort of training that allows you to "see through the fog" so to speak because thats the only way I can describe it. Almost like my brain stopped working all of the sudden.

lamrith · Aug 11, 2012

You did good clearing the area since you had no idea what the situation was. As others said you are best to clear out is possible or find good cover if that is not possible. Then only engage is the situation is being brought to you.

As for the ducking down, don't sweat it and the guys should cut you some slack. It is a natural human reaction to duck down when presented with sudden danger, to make yourself smaller. Many here know that a car door is no safe barrier, but not everyone does know that out in the world, plus you present a smaller target to aim at and most people will not instinctively shoot an unseen target. As long as you could see to safely drive clear of the situation it's all good.

I would second calling the PD to let them know what additional info you can.

Nwcid · Aug 11, 2012

I was not putting the OP down in anyway. I was making an observation/comment that could be used IF there was ever a next time.

As for training there are tons of companies that offer "tactical" training, some are even supporting members of this site.

charros93 · Aug 11, 2012

Nwcid said:
I was not putting the OP down in anyway. I was making an observation/comment that could be used IF there was ever a next time.

As for training there are tons of companies that offer "tactical" training, some are even supporting members of this site.

No worries, I took it as being constructive. Thank you for all your comments and ideas

lamrith · Aug 11, 2012

Yeah I did not mean to attack Nwcid intentionally or directly, sorry about that NW, hope you did not take it personal as it was not my intent. And it was good to share the info so anyone reading this that did not know it, does now.

I have seen people on other forums hammered pretty badly for a comment like yours so I was being a bit.. well over protective

So many armchair/forum rambo's I didn't want you getting bashed and feeling embarassed for a normal reaction..

Riot · Aug 12, 2012

charros93 said:
Can anyone recommend some sort of training that allows you to "see through the fog" so to speak because thats the only way I can describe it. Almost like my brain stopped working all of the sudden.

You just attended your first class of it...seriously. Most of this comes through experience, the rest of it is actually from your mental state before the incident occurred. I try to stay in condition ORANGE, but it is taxing after a while. It will actually mentally drain you from constantly scanning people's manorisms, hands, threat areas, potential targets and high risk areas. At first, you will get headaches and become fatigued quickly....after a while you'll be "sizing people up" from the get go.

I have to be alert for my job...if I don't I might not come home. Ask any person with a high risk job (logging, boating, LEO, ect.) and they'll tell you that they have to be always alert and watching their back. Looking and listening for cues of a possible threat and acting appropriately comes second nature- but it takes time.

Constantly do "what if's" in your head...

"What if someone came in right now and starting shooting people?"

Do you know where all the exits are? Are you facing the entrance? Who is most likely to commit a crime in your immediate area? Where can you seek cover? How many rounds am I carrying on me?

Playing these scenarios in your head keeps your mind alert and prepared for these types of scenarios...even if nobody came in shooting- if a fire suddenly broke out you would probably be the first person out the actual emergency exit door.

Familarize yourself with the Cooper Awareness Scale and the tactical midset. Practice these "what if's" in your head and you have half the "training" done already.

accessbob · Aug 13, 2012

If the shooting was happening directly in front of you, ducking down could potentially help because your car engine (unless you're driving a VW with the engine in the back) can stop bullets. So, in that situation, ducking down could actually make sense if you try to get down below the point above the engine. But that would probably, in reality, mean diving down to the floor and not driving off. So, that might not be a good thing to do. Just pointing out that it isn't a one-size-fits-all for either yes, or no, to ducking down.