Shooting a Dog to protect your dog justified?

ilikegunspdx

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There are idiots out there also that would find it entertaining to have their dog kill another dog. One time I had a guy (likely named bubba or cletus by his "almost" English-speak) go to the park, let his dog rottweiler off the leash (or maybe there was no leash can't remember) and yell "better geet ur dawg, she's a keeler". My trained dog came back at my command, I put him on leash and left. As I was leaving the brainless wonder yells "sheeze a huunter!" Ok bud... I don't know if he said that because my dog was an obviously well trained bird dog or if he was just trying to make up for his small sized &$*~ or what. There are some real pricks out there. There is no way to fix stupid owners unfortunately.

Later on in same neighborhood in a mini mart I saw a guy I think was same guy tell his daughter/son (not sure) "u ain't gettin bunches a things", "put it back, don't think ur gettin bunches a things"
 
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It's an emotional subject to be sure, on both sides. With a simple solution. Most places have leash laws. Keep your dog on a leash. If it isn't and gets aggressive with someone, don't feel like you have the right to go all "Rambo" on the person that shoots your dog. You as a dog owner don't have the right or legal justification to attack someone who is defending themselves from your aggressive dog.

I need my hands to make a living and feed/house my family. I lose the use of them because of your dog, guess who supports my family then? You do. Better for me to avoid that legal hassle of having you pay my bills by defending myself from your aggressive dog.

I keep my dog on a leash period. Outside = leash. Your unleashed dog attacks my leashed dog? Your dog gets hurt. Whatever it takes to make it stop. Many people have been in court over just that issue. Never lost yet. Never will.
 

ilikegunspdx

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It's an emotional subject to be sure, on both sides. With a simple solution. Most places have leash laws. Keep your dog on a leash. If it isn't and gets aggressive with someone, don't feel like you have the right to go all "Rambo" on the person that shoots your dog. You as a dog owner don't have the right or legal justification to attack someone who is defending themselves from your aggressive dog.

I need my hands to make a living and feed/house my family. I lose the use of them because of your dog, guess who supports my family then? You do. Better for me to avoid that legal hassle of having you pay my bills by defending myself from your aggressive dog.

I keep my dog on a leash period. Outside = leash. Your unleashed dog attacks my leashed dog? Your dog gets hurt. Whatever it takes to make it stop. Many people have been in court over just that issue. Never lost yet. Never will.
Agree. A dog owner has the responsibility to keep dog on a leash if there is any chance it may harm a child or other dog. If the owner lets the dog off the leash or terrorize the neighborhood u have to live with the consequences of ur dog's actions. If ur dog attacks another dog or child it is likely going to be put down. Either by a person or the law.
 

Unicykle

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The title is to broad. Most people are to stupid or lazy to train a dog and far to oblivious to understand k9 behavior. 99.9% of the time its the owners fault for not training, socalizing and disciplining the dog. Bully breeds are fantastic dogs and far to often i see headlines of “pit bull attacks” and its not even a pitt but a acronym used to describe an agressive dog that just furthers misnomers to a misunderstood, misrepresented vilanized breed.
7DC0412F-2B03-47A0-987A-F7CB6409DA83.jpeg
 
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The title is to broad. Most people are to stupid or lazy to train a dog and far to oblivious to understand k9 behavior. 99.9% of the time its the owners fault for not training, socalizing and disciplining the dog. Bully breeds are fantastic dogs and far to often i see headlines of “pit bull attacks” and its not even a pitt but a acronym used to describe an agressive dog that just furthers misnomers to a misunderstood, misrepresented vilanized breed.
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Dogs are pretty much like kids. It’s how you raise them - see: pieces of crap people raised by parents/family.
 

XoXSciFiGuy

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Even though this thread has been revived I’ll offer some thoughts,

1. People, do NOT use bear spray unless it’s for Bears! There is the common misconception that because it says “bear” it is somehow stronger, and will be more effective. In fact the opposite is true, “bear spray” is actually weaker and less effective on non-bear targets than regular pepper spray, if you are going to use pepper spray of some variety make sure it is the good stuff, and NOT bear spray.
Bear spray contains four times the active ingredient than the stuff used by cops. It's at the maximum allowed by the EPA. I will respectfully disagree with you, but...I will agree that it might not be the BEST thing to use only because it is classified differently than regular pepper spray. It is classified as a insecticide, more or less, which means you can get into trouble using it on a human. You have to get up pretty close to something to use pepper spray. With bear spray, you can use it realistically from 20-25 feet away, although it WILL travel 30-35 feet. The legality of using it is the main problem. And you never want to use it if you have the wind blowing toward you...
 
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Bear spray contains four times the active ingredient than the stuff used by cops. It's at the maximum allowed by the EPA. I will respectfully disagree with you, but...I will agree that it might not be the BEST thing to use only because it is classified differently than regular pepper spray. It is classified as a insecticide, more or less, which means you can get into trouble using it on a human. You have to get up pretty close to something to use pepper spray. With bear spray, you can use it realistically from 20-25 feet away, although it WILL travel 30-35 feet. The legality of using it is the main problem. And you never want to use it if you have the wind blowing toward you...
Again I’ll say bear spray is NOT as effective for humans, the use on dogs may be up in the air. I personally would not use it on a dog, civilian/LE strength pepper spray is better if you can get close enough to use it. Bear spray is a different formulation that is more effective at long distances, as you mentions the spray effect.
You can do your own research and draw your own conclusions, but everywhere I have read it says specifically that bear spray is not as effective as regular.
 

ZigZagZeke

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I used to raise sheep and bear/lion/coon hunting hounds. The neighbors all knew that a dog chasing sheep in my pasture was a dead dog.

I had a professional grade dog kennel that I built with built in dog boxes, running water, etc. A 24
x 24' cement pad with 6' chain link for the runs. To augment that we had an electronic, invisible fence around the perimeter of our property. When outside those boundaries my hounds were on hunting (chain and leather) leashes -every time-.

When we lived near Portland I took my largest male (90 lbs) to a wildlife area on the Columbia for a little exercise and fresh air. He was on a 6' leash. Out of nowhere come four little yappy dogs with not a person or a leash in sight. They fanned out around us and started yapping and growling at Willy, who was trying to figure out whether they were raccoons or just a small furry lunch. So we're stopped on the path in a standoff, and here comes a group of 3 women calling out that, "Don't worry. They're friendly." They were anything but friendly. As the women approached I told them to get their dogs under control and away from mine, because if their dogs attacked I was going to just drop the leash and let Willy kill their dogs. They gathered up their precious yappers and harumphed on down the trail.

The bluetick hounds I raised always had a pecking order. It was useless to try to stop them from testing it. The best course of action was to let them fight it out. Once they established who was #1 thru #5 everything was peaceful. We stitched up a few split ears and muzzle gashes, but no real harm was done, and that kind of repairs is pretty routine when your dogs hunt big game.

As far as owners that let their aggressive dogs roam free, my take is that they should be prepared to bury their dog and to be sued.

I'm too old to chase hounds across canyons and mountains anymore, so we have one dog these days, and it's not a hunting dog. It roams about 2 acres of our property that surround the house. She's kept in bounds by an invisible fence and a radio collar. Took her running into the fence's no-go zone exactly twice to learn the lesson. She won't challenge it again.

My favorite of them all was Boomer, my last hound. Here he's meeting my truck in the driveway, as he always did. A few months after this I had to put him down at the age of 13 due to cancer.

http://www.zzzeke.com/boomer1
 
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We live in small towns with no leash requirement, only that your dog has to be under control (verbal or otherwise). We have a large front yard with no fence on our cabin property. Our Rott was laying on the porch when this old woman came by with her little guy on a leash, he pretty much ignoring our dog.

Our dog took about ten steps closer, still 50 feet from the woman, and then stopped, just watching the two pass by. I heard the woman say something so I asked her to repeat it. "Grab ahold of your dog!!". I just politely replied, "She's not going anywhere". Even if she were allowed to approach the other dog, he was a male and all they'd do was play. She has some GREAT little male friends. I had to wonder what kind of person could tell you what to do with your own dog on your own property when the dog was clearly doing nothing wrong.

The old woman come by every morning, and if our Rott was outside, she never left the porch.

If something similar happens, there or elsewhere, our Rott will look to me first for a que on what to do, knowing she has limitations. I might say, "Go say hi", upon which she would. If I said "NO", she'd stop in place and perhaps bark or just observe instead.

Dogs have temperaments. Watch them in their litter as pups. The aggressive alphas will dominate their siblings. The betas will prefer to be left alone. If you're looking for a fenced guard dog, such as for a business yard, go with the alpha. Around kids as a family dog and home defender, do the beta. Just a general rule.

We had some awesome neighbors in Las Vegas who didn't have a clue how to raise dogs. They had two and the dogs pulled them around the neighborhood, extremely aggressive toward other dogs, sort of a Pit mix. One time I was out playing ball with ours and there's were on a leash outside their house with their 10 year old son. They broke free and ran toward us, attacking our dog. She ran back to our driveway, her safe space, and defended it, standing her ground there in the driveway. She likely would have killed the lead aggressor but I called her off. I didn't want her to experience aggression any more than necessary.

The neighbors were extremely apologetic. I often worked in the garage with the door open and my Rott would lay there with me. If they walked their dogs by they'd go nuts. They felt so bad that they soon went around the block rather than deal with that behavior.

I was very tempted to ask them if I could train their dogs for a couple of days, just to show them how uninformed or WRONG they were about their dog's behavior. All they needed was discipline and a pack leader. In a couple of hours they'd have been different dogs.
 
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I've noticed that some people go nuts around dogs. All I can figure is that perhaps they've had a bad experience or something. My daughter has a half-grown puppy that she's raising. He annoys the heck out of me what with chewing up everything he can get his evil little teeth into, but he's a good dog. He bounces around unbearably happy all the time. :)

He's not very obedient for her though, and we're working on that. We have to watch him or he'll sneak out the front door and run, and he's so excited that he just won't listen right away. He's overly friendly and will run up to people walking by or walking their dogs, looking for a new friend. I've told the kids that they just can't let him do that. He has to obey and be on a leash outside, or he's going to end up run over, chomped on by a bigger dog, or cops called and a ticket for a loose dog.

One day he got out and like a flash he was down the street. Some guy on a skateboard was going by and he ran over to check that out. I think he startled the guy, because the guy turned around and started cussing and chewing me out. The dog never touched him but you'd think he mauled him for the way he reacted. Screaming and cussing in front of kids? Yes, we absolutely need to keep control of our dog, but some people just have no sense of civility whatsoever. :(
 

oldcorpgunny

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Our neighbors pitbull managed to dig under my fence (even though I had put tent stakes in the ground to dissuade it from coming into my yard) and it went after my golden Retriever and my wife. This is the second time that the animal has attacked neighbor dogs and their owners. These people also had the same issue in Spokane before they moved behind me. That's four attacks by this dog. It did $7,000 worth of damage to my neighbor lady and her little dog. I called the animal control people and the cops and made a report to both agencies. Then I advised the owners that if the dog showed up in my yard ever again, I would unhesitatingly kill it. They built a fence on their side of the property line and I haven't had any problems since then. However, there is a .22 strategically located in the event that this vicious dog ever shows up again.
 

RVTECH

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However, there is a .22 strategically located in the event that this vicious dog ever shows up again.
My only comment to this is to replace the .22 with something more adequate.

I had a similar situation with a neighbor and his two monster Rotten weilers several years ago and I kept a beater 12 ga. (loaded) leaning outside on my (covered) back deck.
 

XoXSciFiGuy

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ZigZagZeke says in part:

My favorite of them all was Boomer, my last hound. Here he's meeting my truck in the driveway, as he always did. A few months after this I had to put him down at the age of 13 due to cancer.

http://www.zzzeke.com/boomer1
And a great dog I am sure he was. Sorry for your loss. The way he comes trotting up to you like that was very nice.
 

JRuby

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I had to put my dog, Jake down on August 8th of this year. When he left so did a part of me. I have never had children due to sea duty, choices. He could not have been closer to me if he had been a child, I imagine. I cannot put my companions in harms way and do every thing I can to ensure their safety and health. I have little respect for those who have the title of owner but have nothing to do with their companion/s. The companions deserve better.
 

Certaindeaf

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There are idiots out there also that would find it entertaining to have their dog kill another dog. One time I had a guy (likely named bubba or cletus by his "almost" English-speak) go to the park, let his dog rottweiler off the leash (or maybe there was no leash can't remember) and yell "better geet ur dawg, she's a keeler". My trained dog came back at my command, I put him on leash and left. As I was leaving the brainless wonder yells "sheeze a huunter!" Ok bud... I don't know if he said that because my dog was an obviously well trained bird dog or if he was just trying to make up for his small sized &$*~ or what. There are some real pricks out there. There is no way to fix stupid owners unfortunately.

Later on in same neighborhood in a mini mart I saw a guy I think was same guy tell his daughter/son (not sure) "u ain't gettin bunches a things", "put it back, don't think ur gettin bunches a things"
Remember, they're out there. To arrive at/derive the average IQ of 100 means there's a godawful number of literal morons out there.
 

RVTECH

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Aside from the two dogs I have dumped in my life I have also drawn down on two others - and both in the National Forest with their owners only to show up minutes later and freaked out that their 'under control' dogs were aggresing people.

One situation was with two 'mountain bikers' who rode up and started arguing their 'freedom' with their dogs in the National Forest - and I retorted with my 'freedom' to the security of my friends and myself - as the dogs were aggressing the GF of a friend of mine - who was drawing down as well....
 
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I wanted to quantify something that's perhaps a given while not being stated.

Dogs are pack animals by design. We only have one dog, a Rottweiler, so we become her pack. We take that seriously. She sleeps in our bed, goes on the road with us, and despite being a 'small' 90 lb. Rottweiler, thinks she's a lap dog and I gladly let her hop on my lap when it's available (no laptop or meal on board). She prefers to think she's the alpha female but at times is reminded who's in charge. She's happy with her 'girlfriend' status.

With that, because we're taking a pack animal into a human world, something altogether foreign to her DNA, I'm aware of the huge responsibility of interacting with the modern world. Even a place like a gas station can be deadly for a dog who hasn't been exposed to the potential dangers thereof, mostly vehicles dodging in and out. She's always eager for a leash, despite the fact that she's normally off one.

So when I get her into a situation like I'd described above when she was attacked by the Great Dane mix, she was trusting me to overlord that situation from the moment we got out of the car. When she was attacked, I felt like I'd totally let her down, failed as a parent, so-to-speak. My world, my danger. She was just going along for the ride while following my lead.

That's the tough thing in all of this. The responsibility of her life and well being is completely in our hands. Even my better half fails to see the risk in some situations, what could happen in a split second if something goes awry.

That's one reason I'd 'shoot' in certain situations, because it's my responsibility. She'd have never been in that situation, whatever it may be, to begin with had we not put her there.

A dog's world is much different than ours in many ways, but they constantly live with the fact that they could be in a life-threatening situation at any moment, and could very well die. We live with that in a lesser extent but we can avoid the dark alleys, so-to-speak. The Great Dane encounter was the perfect example of that.

We've had times when we've taken her out in the desert while rock hunting, including scaling some pretty towering canyons and areas. She always goes along, and will stop and wait for my rescue if she steps on a thorn, for example. OMG the thorns I've pulled from her feet.

One time I was on a serious peak and she was across a swale on the neighboring ridge, assessing my progress. She could see across the entire valley, perhaps 220* around or more, and seemed to just stop while taking in her surroundings, laying on the ridgeline. Suddenly I was staring at a wolf in its natural setting. Her DNA was kicking in.

On another trip, the same thing happened, and this time as dusk approached and we needed to make a rapid descent to the rig parked far below, she just wanted to stay where she was at. She was in the wild and instinctively feeling at home. It was really awesome to observe. She could have gone AWOL but she did indeed relent and make her way down to the rig, but not before I was hundreds of yards below her while demanding her descent. Those are some special moments between us.

As the pack leader it's my duty to keep an eye on her safety while teaching her societal norms. She's out of her element in our environment and the more we are aware of that, the better off everyone will be. Take on the responsibility of training he/she to live in a human world, and protect them when they need protection.

They don't have a pack to rely on, you're it.
 

bbbass

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Used to be able to shoot or hang cattle rustlers :confused:
Used to be able to legally pay for a "poke" too...


You have to get up pretty close to something to use pepper spray.
This depends on the brand and model. They are available in several dispersal patterns, mist/cloud, wide spray, and full stream. IMO the stream is the one to get.. most are advertised as being able to shoot 25'. I carry POM, as recommended by John C. of ASP.


One day he got out and like a flash he was down the street. Some guy on a skateboard was going by and he ran over to check that out. I think he startled the guy, because the guy turned around and started cussing and chewing me out. The dog never touched him but you'd think he mauled him for the way he reacted. Screaming and cussing in front of kids? Yes, we absolutely need to keep control of our dog, but some people just have no sense of civility whatsoever.
Aside from the two dogs I have dumped in my life I have also drawn down on two others - and both in the National Forest with their owners only to show up minutes later and freaked out that their 'under control' dogs were aggresing people.

One situation was with two 'mountain bikers' who rode up and started arguing their 'freedom' with their dogs in the National Forest - and I retorted with my 'freedom' to the security of my friends and myself - as the dogs were aggressing the GF of a friend of mine - who was drawing down as well....
A few years back, I was enjoying a morning coffee at the campfire at a nearby campground while the wife was inside doing something or other. I was intensely startled by a large black thing charging up along the left side of my chair. Thinking B.E.A.R.!!!!! When my heart fell back down from my throat, I saw that it was not a bear, but a huge Black Lab. I got up and it ran back to it's owners, some 100' away on the campground road. So, seeing as how I was pissed at having been so startled, and as how the LEASH requirements in the campground are clearly posted, we had a little confrontation. Same stupid attitude of "what's your problem... Everybody lets their dogs run loose out in the woods!!". Aarrrgh! I sure would have liked to go all Caveman on them...
 

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