Other State Shooter in deadly Florida 'Stand Your Ground' case arrested for manslaughter

[Slobray]

Edit: and I'm not sure how their laws create your stated "gun free zones".

The same ones as in WA:

The person does not carry the concealed weapon in certain places:

In any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for on-site consumption, except a restaurant and the person does not consume alcohol beverages

InAlaska - Permits Licensing - Records and Information - Alaska Department of Public Safety



Ray

 

[bbbass]

The same ones as in WA:


InAlaska - Permits Licensing - Records and Information - Alaska Department of Public Safety



Ray

And yet the BGs don't seem to be targeting those places, gun-free zones or not. Please name for me the "mass shooting" that characterizes AK restaurants and bars.

 

[Koda]

They prohibit guns in bars in Florida too and we suffered one of the worst mass shootings in a bar there... A gun free zone.

Please dont tell me the bad guys dont target bars or any gun free zones.

 

[bbbass]

They prohibit guns in bars in Florida too and we suffered one of the worst mass shootings in a bar there... A gun free zone.

Please dont tell me the bad guys dont target gun free zones.

Never said that... Please don't put words here that I didn't say.

Florida nightclub massacre... Well you got me there. One time in how many years? But I was thinking Alaska. And I wrote Alaska

Please name for me the "mass shooting" that characterizes AK restaurants and bars.

Thanks for the oblique comment... I'll consider that to be unresponsive to my question.

So they have these laws in WA too... how many mass shootings in bars in WA?

Yeah, thinking on this... I really don't care about bar carry... what I care about is under the influence carry.

@Black Dog ... Why you start this thread drift??? Sucked me right in!!!

 

[Slobray]

And yet the BGs don't seem to be targeting those places, gun-free zones or not. Please name for me the "mass shooting" that characterizes AK restaurants and bars.

You asked "how their laws create your stated "gun free zones"", I showed you and then you change the subject.................

Yup you got me, no "mass shootings" in AK bars (which pretty much is the same for every state in the union), as most shooting involving bars happen outside (see below). As to "mass shooting", I don't believe that in the existing 16 pages, that was part of the conversation and so it is irrelevant.

Six Shot After Argument Outside Bar in Anchorage, Alaska
Two men charged with shooting death outside downtown Anchorage bar
Woman shot in Koot's parking lot 'altercation' after bar break
2 wounded in Cabin Tavern shooting



Ray

 

[Koda]

Bbbass, my apologies. It wasnt my intention to attribute anything to you.

I get the intent behind the laws and agree with it. But it doesnt work and it does create GFZs, that we KNOW dont work either. Responsible gun owners dont carry and get drunk. We dont have that law in Oregon, and its never been a problem so I dont see how that law is a solution in any other state. All it does is infringe on my right to protect myself is im hanging out with friends, nobody has to buy booze just cause their in a bar.

 

[bbbass]

Bbbass, my apologies. It wasnt my intention to attribute anything to you.

I get the intent behind the laws and agree with it. But it doesnt work and it does create GFZs, that we KNOW dont work either. Responsible gun owners dont carry and get drunk. We dont have that law in Oregon, and its never been a problem so I dont see how that law is a solution in any other state. All it does is infringe on my right to protect myself is im hanging out with friends, nobody has to buy booze just cause their in a bar.

Agreed.

 

[bbbass]

You asked "how their laws create your stated "gun free zones"", I showed you and then you change the subject.................

Yup you got me, no "mass shootings" in AK bars (which pretty much is the same for every state in the union), as most shooting involving bars happen outside (see below). As to "mass shooting", I don't believe that in the existing 16 pages, that was part of the conversation and so it is irrelevant.

Six Shot After Argument Outside Bar in Anchorage, Alaska
Two men charged with shooting death outside downtown Anchorage bar
Woman shot in Koot's parking lot 'altercation' after bar break
2 wounded in Cabin bubblegum shooting



Ray

I started out talking about AK laws... not sure how you think I changed the subject.

Irrelevant, to the thread, yes, agreed. But is IS relevant to any discussion of "gun free zones" However, I'm not the one that interjected any of this subject (alcohol and carry) into the thread. I did get sucked into rendering an opinion on it, as did others. For my transgression I am TRULY sorry.

If you read my entire post: I gave up the argument. So you can stop chasing me now please.

Yeah, thinking on this... I really don't care about bar carry... what I care about is under the influence carry.

@Black Dog ... Why you start this thread drift??? Sucked me right in!!!

 

[bbbass]

It seems the whole "bar carry" drift in this thread started in response to a hypothetical on SYG posed by po18guy... Sorry @Black Dog for attributing it to you.

Not here to argue, as that is a waste of time.

You're in a bar ordering a roiund. Drunk hits on your wife or girlfriend. Right up in her chest. She gives you "the look." You step in, the guy shouts at you and you shove him away. He draws and kills you.

Good law?

 

[Black Dog]

It seems the whole "bar carry" drift in this thread started in response to a hypothetical on SYG posed by po18guy... Sorry @Black Dog for attributing it to you.

Boy thought I was in trouble again. Your for given.

 

[etrain16]

Let this shooting be an example for us all.

When you carry , you need to as close to 100 % "right" , correct or blameless as possible , in everything that you do and each interaction that you have.
You will be judged seven ways to Sunday , by the media and folks who were there , weren't there , can relate to you and by those who don't have a clue....all before you end up in court.
Not to forget the media checking and displaying the backgrounds of all involved for the world to see and judge...whether it is relevant to the case at hand or not....

Before intervening , have a plan...weigh all the possible outcomes...
That said... remember that other people , have no notion of your plan and will not play by your rules.
If you choose to intervene in a non life threatening situation , use this example to remember that it can change in the blink of an eye...is the issue that you are getting yourself in the middle of , worth that happening...?

You have no control over how other folks react to what you say and do....But remember that you chose to intervene , rightly or wrongly...you put yourself into a situation...that may very quickly and easily go any number of ways , that you didn't count on.

Even if you intervene in a life threatening situation ....you may have gotten there in the middle or near the end of it...Just what is really going on...? Who is actually the aggressor...?

Again when you carry it seems to me , that you must be as close to blameless in all that you do ...and left with no other recourse , thru no fault of yours , if you need to shoot.
Andy

I took a defensive carry/shooting class a couple years ago where they wanted to make a point about considering ALL options when you are in a position to possibly intervene. One after another, most of us made the choice to get involved in something because we perceived it one particular way. It pointed out that you can, if you allow it, get a bit of tunnel vision. The point of the exercise was to show that you often have one or more other options that don't have to lead to a possible deadly encounter. I'm thankful for the training because it caused me to re-think how I can plan for various events. We all had airsoft guns and so it was a safe 'live fire' event - and I did happen to drop the bad guy, but it put me immediately in another situation that was kind of a no-win scenario. Really would be a good idea for folks to get that kind of training at least a few times in their lives. I think sometimes you just can't consider all the possibilities - and while you never will, it's nice to have a realistic challenge to expand your mind to other options to avoid trouble in the first place.

 

[bbbass]

Boy thought I was in trouble again. Your for given.

LOL

 

[bgdawgrr]

Call me crazy, but for everyone that keeps pressing the issue about the handicapped spaces and public enforcement etc, from what I see in the video, there are an abundance of spaces right in front of the store. Looks like the shooter even points that out. That just adds to the "who cares, mind your own business " and supports the shooter seemed to just be looking for trouble.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

We have had "bar carry" here in Oregon for decades and it has not been a problem. In fact it has been beneficial in several real life cases where armed staff or customers have been able to repel an ejected jerk who comes back with a gun to "shoot up the place".

Criminals are still going to carry when and where they want no matter what laws you make or signs you put up.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Call me crazy, but for everyone that keeps pressing the issue about the handicapped spaces and public enforcement etc, from what I see in the video, there are an abundance of spaces right in front of the store. Looks like the shooter even points that out. That just adds to the "who cares, mind your own business " and supports the shooter seemed to just be looking for trouble.

Nothing you say gives someone else the right to put their hands on you.

 

[American123]

Call me crazy, but for everyone that keeps pressing the issue about the handicapped spaces and public enforcement etc, from what I see in the video, there are an abundance of spaces right in front of the store. Looks like the shooter even points that out. That just adds to the "who cares, mind your own business " and supports the shooter seemed to just be looking for trouble.

What you allow to take place becomes the new accepted normal. The reason we are in the situation we are in with this country where half of it thinks one way and half of it thinks another is previous generations have had a complacent mindset and allowed general debauchery to fester and grow.

In our 'civilized society' it has been decided many times that hearing undesirable conversation does not precede a justified physical assault. Saying, 'why make the parking space a deal' demonstrates an immediate counter argument for the trash in the handicap spot, why park there instead of in another spot?

People in parking lots are generally losers, they drive to the front of the store hoping to find an open spot to save 200 feet of additional walking, get frustrated when they can't find a spot, or get into disagreements of who got to a space first when there are many open spots further away that if they parked in at first opportunity, would have been in the store already. Besides, no able bodied person really needs to park close to the store when they are more than capable of walking the additional steps and allowing the elderly and disabled to park closer who have legitimate health reasons to benefit from a closer space.

Society as a whole is rotting, has for a long time, and able bodied trash parking in the handicapped spot and defending their trashy behavior is yet another symtom of this degradation.

 

[Koda]

handicapped spots are designed to give the person extra space to exit and enter their vehicle, especially those wheelchair bound. They should never have to rely on the many other regular spots just because they are open when someone who's not handicapped has narcissisticly taken the handicapped spot.

 

[bbbass]

Fatal shooting reignites 'Stand Your Ground' law debate in Florida

 

[Head Shot]

Erased

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Andrew Branca at Law of Self Defense went over an interesting case where the initial aggressor regained his innocents by retreating 33 feet on his weekly podcast. Law of Self Defense LIVE Show