National Shockwave legal OAL - include mag extension?

[The Heretic]

Here is a problem I see with the firearm pictured. The brace is classified as an accessory and should not be counted in the OAL. The tube that the brace is mounted on could also be classified as an accessory and may not count towards the OAL unless it's necessary for the function of the firearm. This is why I would like to incorporate a buffer tube as a necessary part of my AR 12ga build. I will not be running a brace on it.

And yet, the ATF, being the inconsistent government agency it is, doesn't count the tube itself as an accessory.

The raptor grip could theoretically be similarly classified as theoretically the firearm could be shot without it, by holding the firearm by the fore grip.

A mag tube is required, to get repeat shots, but you could single load the firearm and shoot it without a mag tube.

It depends on how far one wishes to push this kind of logic.

It is more or less up to the discretion of the ATF as to what is an accessory and what is necessary for function. Just as they do with the definition of what is a machine gun.

 

[arakboss]

And yet, the ATF, being the inconsistent government agency it is, doesn't count the tube itself as an accessory.

The raptor grip could theoretically be similarly classified as theoretically the firearm could be shot without it, by holding the firearm by the fore grip.

A mag tube is required, to get repeat shots, but you could single load the firearm and shoot it without a mag tube.

It depends on how far one wishes to push this kind of logic.

It is more or less up to the discretion of the ATF as to what is an accessory and what is necessary for function. Just as they do with the definition of what is a machine gun.

Good points. For my home build 12ga AR, I am going to hold off counting tube length unless I can justify it's purpose for something other than creating artificial length. One idea I had was to leave off the factory pistol grip and add the pistol grip on to the extension tube area. That would make it closer to the lay out of the shockwave firearms. One hand will be required to be on the barrel (for slam fire operation). If it is not too much of a stretch, I may go ahead and mount the pistol grip in the extension tube area. Sort of like @matts idea in another thread.

 

[It-That]

Good points. For my home build 12ga AR, I am going to hold off counting tube length unless I can justify it's purpose for something other than creating artificial length. One idea I had was to leave off the factory pistol grip and add the pistol grip on to the extension tube area. That would make it closer to the lay out of the shockwave firearms. One hand will be required to be on the barrel (for slam fire operation). If it is not too much of a stretch, I may go ahead and mount the pistol grip in the extension tube area. Sort of like @matts idea in another thread.

What in world are you building post a link I can not visualize all this crazy talk

 

[ma96782]

IMHO.....

In writing. Ask the BATF and get a response in writing. It'll at least be good until some other gun grabbers decide that it's no longer the case.



Aloha, Mark

 

[bradsteen]

What in world are you building post a link I can not visualize all this crazy talk

+1 on this - would love to see a concept drawing if you are willing to indulge our curiosity!

 

[arakboss]

What in world are you building post a link I can not visualize all this crazy talk

Just a simple slam fire firearm that fires shot shells but I am going to run some of the pipe through AR Receivers. If you search slam fire shotguns you will get the idea.

 

[arakboss]

+1 on this - would love to see a concept drawing if you are willing to indulge our curiosity!

Follow this thread for updates on shot shell firing AR ideas.

HMB12 Smooth Bore Firearm Project Using AR Receiver(s).

Hey @matts , hold my beer. I think many people fail to appreciate the flexibility that the AR platform provides. My latest idea to demonstrate that flexibility is to design a 12ga barrel that can used with either a lower or upper AR receiver, possibly both. We have already seen 410 uppers...

www.northwestfirearms.com

My latest idea is for bullpup 28ga configuration. It will be the easiest and cheapest to assemble so I will do it first. I may have rough physical mock up posted by Sunday. Don't expect much sophistication. It will be sophisticated enough to be considered a shotgun for transfer purposes. Legal on entire west coast.

 

[FireArm]

There was rifle above it on the page. The relevant part is the definition of how ATF measures
the length of a firearm.

Here is another clip---this one from the NIST.Gov site:

4.2.5 Measurands: The quantities to be measured for BL-OL are described in ATF-NFA. Briefly, "The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel", and "The overall length of a firearm is the distance between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion of the weapon measured on a line parallel to the axis of the bore."

The shockwave is classified as a "firearm" it's not a shotgun, it's not a pistol, it's not a rifle. It's in a category of its own. Black Aces manufactures figured this out.