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Shipping rifle to self, interstate, for hunting: Magic Word?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Spitpatch, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Just spent an ordeal at a UPS main terminal (Tualatin), and Post Office, trying to ship my hunting rifle to myself in Montana for hunting. No success. I HAVE done this before. First, the UPS people told me illegal, then when I showed up with ATF regulations in writing specifically addressing this situation as perfectly legal, they said not their "policy". This even from the Head (you know what) In Charge.

    Same result at the Post Office (even to the level of Head...In Charge).

    Yes, I have the ATF chapter and verse. This does not budge either organization. Both are insisting an FFL must be at one end (NOT required by BATFE).

    What is the Magic Word, or printed word (preferably from UPS or USPS) that will compel them to do what I know they have done in the past?

    Thanks to anyone with recent experience. Maybe UPS policies have changed to be beyond legal requirements.
     
  2. yotehunter

    yotehunter north west Active Member

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    ...dont tell them whats in the box...
     
  3. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to spend a night in the box.
     
  4. df662

    df662 Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    You are not required to notify usps that a rifle is in the box. There is no exchange of ownership of the rifle, no ffl required....
     
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  5. yotehunter

    yotehunter north west Active Member

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    Yep. What df662 said
     
  6. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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    get lockable air/flight safe hard case would be another choice, if you travel with it often.
     
  7. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Chapter and verse, please. (I KNOW no FFl required, and I have that documentation. Show where I stay out of the box by not saying what's in the box.)

    Thanks Skang, I thought I covered all bases in the inquiry: I have flown regularly with guns, trying to avoid it this time around.
     
  8. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    What most people don't know is that all UPS, USPS, and FedEx employees are members of a certain obscure sect of the Freemasons.
    There's a secret masonic word which when uttered obligates the postal worker to do as you wish, Then they have to go off and paddle themselves in a secret cave somewhere.

    The word is "Tubalcain".
     
  9. sdrake100

    sdrake100 Lake Oswego New Member

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    You can't take it with you?
     
  10. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    Again, Yes.
    I can take it with me.

    Reasons not to? I'm taking a minor arsenal for a big trip, and I want to ship this one.

    I am making progress from another website with somewhat fewer comedians and some people with some experience. check this out:

    "§ 478.38 Transportation of firearms.
    Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where such person may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where such person may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded..."

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf (See page 45.)

    "11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
    Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.

    11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
    Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice."

    DMM 601 Mailability

    That last part means just what it says: no one at the USPO is allowed to decide if this is "legal" or "illegal." That's the purview of the BATFE.
     
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  11. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried FedEx? Not a Kinko's FedEx, the real deal. If you go to a FedEx World Service Center they seem to know what they are doing. I haven't used them to ship a gun to myself, but I have used them to ship guns. They have always been very pleasant and professional.
     
  12. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    I would file an official complaint with the PostMaster General's office
     
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  13. PX4WA

    PX4WA Tacoma, WA Active Member

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    had a rifle shipped to me intra state once by post office..

    postman on delivery made a comment he thought it was a rifle and I said yes it is...

    he then mentioned, he's delivered a few of those in the past..

    so it probably is just your local post office people making stuff up...
     
  14. jerman1964

    jerman1964 Sherwood, OR Member

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    I shipped mine as Machine Parts. No further discussion with the postman.
     
  15. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I use the Portland UPS terminal on Basin Ave.
    All I do is declare what is in the box "vintage rifle, unloaded" when using their shipping computer to print out the address label.
    I always tell the person behind the counter it's going to an FFL address, C/O the buyer. Not once have they checked the FFL paperwork that was sent to me by the buyer of my gun.
    Could you ship this firearm to a FFL address and pick it up from them when you get there?
     
  16. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Could you ship this firearm to a FFL address and pick it up from them when you get there?

    Yes. Again, Yes. (For the fee charged by the FFL holder, for doing something they are not required by law to be a part of.)

    I go forth again today, armed with my additional documentation that says it's not any of the Postmaster's business what is legal. Full authority rests with BATFE, and they say good to go.
     
  17. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    And, upon further research (wish I'd had this yesterday), updated verson, compelling them here:

    This from DMM 601 Mailability

    12.2 Rifles and Shotguns
    Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d. The following conditions also apply:

    a. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement, and must be sent by Express Mail (“signature required” must be used at delivery), Registered Mail, or must include either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery or Signature Confirmation service.

    b. A shotgun or rifle owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner's state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the state, where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:

    1. Be addressed to the owner.

    2. Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.

    3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.

    4. Be mailed using services described in 12.2a..

    c. Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 12.2a..

    d. Except as described in 12.1.2a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domestically to FFL licensed curio and relic collectors in any state. USPS recommends these items be mailed using those services described in 12.2a..

    e. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest may be accepted for mailing without restriction.

    f. Air guns that do not fall within the definition of firearm under 12.1.1a are mailable. A shipment containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an Adult Signature service under 503.9.0. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.

    12.3 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
    Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of firearms. Further advice and ATF contact information is available at ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions.
     
  18. davemata

    davemata Spokane, WA Well-Known Member

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    Dude, really? Don't listen to this guy, he's lying to you.

    The word is "Zoaroster."

    Go to a different USPS. When I shipped my rifle to Ruger all they cared was if it had ammo in the box. They also told me at that time I can ship it to myself anywhere, and if it doesn't have ammo in the box it's fine, and its a good idea to tell them what's in the box but you don't have to.

    This was in MA where they flat out pee themselves at the mention of a firearm.

    ETA - Looks like you DO have to tell them.
     
  19. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Spitpatch, you may be running into an anti who works for the Post Office. Ask to speak to his manager and file a complaint. If the manager won't work with you, speak to their manager and file a complaint. Let's get the bums fired if their breaking the law to push an anti agenda.
     
  20. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    Joe Rogan says it's "Tubalcain"... and he can't lie.