Washington Shipping for repair work

SHOKDU · Jan 17, 2022

Hello all, long time lurker here who recently found myself moving to Washington. I'm finding out a bit late that this state may make things quite a bit more difficult for enjoying my 2A activities! Stuff here seems to border outright stupidity. Anyway, on to my question.

I was told by an FFL today that I may not send a pistol out for repair work to an FFL, and have it shipped directly back to me when the work is complete. This is contradictory to anywhere I've ever lived.

The FFL said that I can not ship a pistol out myself, that it must be sent from an FFL.

The FFL also said that when the gun repair is complete that it must ship back here to an FFL, and that I'd be required to do a 4473 and wait.

Seriously??

I'd appreciate any light, or correction that you all could offer!

User 1234 · Jan 17, 2022

An unlicensed person (doesn't have a dealer or manufacturer FFL) cannot use the US Postal Service to mail a pistol. An unlicensed person can use FedEx or UPS to ship a pistol to an FFL for repairs. See www.shipmygun.com The repairing FFL can send it directly back to the owner at the address they received it from.

Nosferatu · Jan 17, 2022

They lied.

WheatNuts · Jan 17, 2022

Unfortunately, the hobby of firearms is plagued by many people (both private individuals, and FFLs) who have no idea about the laws that pertain to the industry, yet have no problem expressing their opinion anyway, and lots of times the more ignorant they are, the more adamant they are about those wrong opinions. I have had a number of FFLs in Oregon and Washington tell me something that was blatantly wrong, regarding firearms laws, and when I disagreed, and even went so far as to show them the law as written, they only got more belligerent and louder. I've found it's best to just shake my head and move on. I call them "fudds" and they're not worth the time.

Regarding your dilemma, that FFL is wrong.

ma96782 · Jan 17, 2022

AS A SHIPPER - THE SHORT COURSE ON SHIPPING FIREARMS

***Declare all firearm shipments***AND***Unless prohibited by your state or local laws***

A Non-FFL, CAN ship a long gun (rifle or shotgun), via the US Mail or common/contract carrier (Fed Ex, UPS, etc.) to an FFL, back to the factory, or gunsmith, or out of state (to yourself), or to another non-prohibited person within your state.*

A Non-FFL, CANNOT ship a handgun via the US Mail. However, a Non-FFL, MAY USE a common/contract carrier for handgun shipments…….to an FFL, back to the factory, or gunsmith, or out of state (to yourself), or to another non-prohibited person within your state.*

That being said.....as a Non-FFL, I've found it cheaper, to take my handgun(s) to my FFL Dealer (even w/ his fee) and have the handgun(s) shipped via the USPS, registered mail and insured. YMWV.

For an FFL Dealer, a firearm (handgun or long gun) can be shipped by either the US Mail or common/contract carrier.

*Note: The current BGC Laws (example : WA and OR) have thrown a wrench into this. As I said prior......"Unless prohibited by your state or local laws."

BTW, the US Postal Service does NOT recognize a C&R Lic. (Collector Lic.), as being the same thing as an FFL (Dealer Lic.).
__________________________________________________ ____

The common carriers make their own rules on how they want firearms to be shipped (overnight, same day or whatever). Mostly it's because, they can't trust their employees w/ the possibility of THEFT. Not to mention that, making LARGE PROFITS is the name of the game. So, shipping charges can/will quickly mount.

*THINGS MAY HAVE CHANGED* Because of poor training, some UPS and FedEx employees THINK that shipping of firearms is authorized ONLY between FFLs. That is just NOT true. Speak to the KNOWLEDGEABLE people. It's also a good idea to have a printed copy of their rules in hand, before going to the shipping center. *THINGS MAY HAVE CHANGED*

The USPS is also a problem for some, as the clerks are in some cases poorly trained.
__________________________________________________ _____

DON'T TRY TO SKIRT THE LAW

Some people may advise others to ship their firearms in pieces……."Parts are Parts." But, note what the BATF says: Frames or receivers of firearms are "firearms" as defined in the law and subject to the same controls as complete firearms.

You Have Been Warned.

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SHIPPING TO AN FFL DEALER, WITHOUT A SIGNED, INKED FFL IN YOUR HAND

The shipper/seller, for their protection, needs to verify the receiver is an FFL Dealer. They need to ask for the receiver's FFL Number.
The shipper should then go to this website to verify the license and address: ATF FFL Ez Check Site.
The shipper should print the screen they get.
They can then legally ship the firearm to the receiver, but only at the address verified at the Ez Check Site.
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IF YOU'RE THE BUYER OF A FIREARM (FROM ANOTHER STATE)

Since this is a SALE of a firearm, the seller will ship the firearm to your FFL (not directly to you). Especially with handgun transfers.....they need to be picked up at your FFL in your "home state". Once the firearm is at your local FFL, the FFL will record it in his book, he'll be responsible to check you out. Making sure you're not a prohibited person, have followed your local and state laws, have paid the correct fees (if applicable), and of course filled out form 4473.
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SHIPPING ANTIQUES

Under the Federal definition, an antique firearm (as described below) can be sent any way you like. But, local and state laws may vary, so remember to check them too.

Title 18, Section 921(a)(16) then defines "antique firearm" as follows:

The term "antique firearm" means -

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica -

(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

And, from the ATF site, FAQ............

(A3) Do antique firearms come within the purview of the GCA?

No.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3) and (16), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.141(d)]

Advice for shipping an Antique Firearm.......

Ship them via the USPS, registered mail and insured. They are "antique firearms" and therefore are not controlled by the same laws as regular firearms.

c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are
generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.

Taken from the USPS Publication 52.

And, beware: Just because a firearm is a, "qualified C&R Firearm" it's NOT always, an "antique firearm."

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AND.....

If you are a non-FFL shipping a firearm. Check first, with the receiving FFL before shipping. Some FFLs may not/will not accept a firearms shipment from a non-lic holder and/or they might/will want additional information/IDs from you.

And shipping (even with a FFL Lic) to a CA FFL comes with more hoops to jump through. Some FFLs may/will refuse to ship to CA because of it.

There may be additional laws......that also put up hurdles to jump through in what is supposed to be an "easy process". Rrrrright.....many things change.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....as for the OP's situation.
If it were ME....I'd look for another FFL.

DLS · Jan 17, 2022

As clearly stated above, the FFL holder is flat out wrong. Find a different one, one that either knows the law or is not lying to you to get business.

GWS · Jan 17, 2022

You can ship via UPS or Fed Ex but they will require Overnight shipping Primarily to keep their own people from stealing it. That can run to $100+ with insurance. Almost ant FFL can ship it for you for a lot less.

SHOKDU · Jan 17, 2022

Thank you all for the kind, and confirming replies.

I'm very glad to know that I was right, and I had not moved to crazy town!

@ma96782 great info, and all stuff I knew - but the clerk at the shop today really threw me for a loop. He said some legislation had passed in 2018 in Washington prohibiting the type of shipping I wanted to do, and requiring the 4473 upon receipt of the firearm back from service - even though I already own it! I was just speechless. It seemed absurd, but absurd things do happen to get passed in legislation!

Thanks again all!

DirectDrive · Jan 18, 2022

Nosferatu said:
They lied.

This ^^^
Don't use that FFL

ma96782 · Jan 18, 2022

SHOKDU said:
Thank you all for the kind, and confirming replies.

I'm very glad to know that I was right, and I had not moved to crazy town!

@ma96782 great info, and all stuff I knew - but the clerk at the shop today really threw me for a loop. He said some legislation had passed in 2018 in Washington prohibiting the type of shipping I wanted to do, and requiring the 4473 upon receipt of the firearm back from service - even though I already own it! I was just speechless. It seemed absurd, but absurd things do happen to get passed in legislation!

Thanks again all!

Well then. Yup. And, OK, Ok, ok.......I could be WRONG. And, YES. Things/laws.....can, will and do CHANGE.

My post addressed and was originally written.....to speak to the Federal regulation(s) and the "normal" restrictions.

But then frequently.....
As with a lot of things.....it doesn't/couldn't/wouldn't hurt to get a second opinion.

Mind you that, the post also included the part about.....

"Unless prohibited by your state or local laws."

THAT was also a hint. So then.....my post was never intended to "cover" everywhere/every situation. Nor be.....Legal Advice.

Aloha, Mark

PS......if it was ONLY the (supposed to be NEW-2018) WA State Law in question. Well, you could have said so from the beginning. That all being said.....please look up the appropriate section of the WA State Law covering THAT ISSUE.

For your reading pleasure......

Revised Code of Washington (RCW)

And again....YES, things, can/will/do CHANGE.

IIRC, in 2018....
The ASSAULT RIFLE law (might have) happened in WA.

So, maybe/perhaps the FFL was talking about a possible convoluted interpretation/provision in his reading of that (or some other law)? But note that in your case, you are NOT doing a purchase or transfer of ownership. AND....you're dealing with a pistol, not a rifle.

Maybe because (note it says "may deliver")*......

RCW 9.41.090
Dealer deliveries regulated—Hold on delivery—Fees authorized. (Contingent expiration date.)
(1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until:
(a) The dealer is notified in writing by (i) the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or (ii) the state that the purchaser is eligible to possess a firearm under RCW 9.41.040, as provided in subsection (3)(b) of this section; or
(b) The requirements or time periods in RCW 9.41.092 have been satisfied. And it continues...

Taken from.....

RCW 9.41.090: Dealer deliveries regulated—Hold on delivery—Fees authorized. (Contingent expiration date.)

*LOL.....remember that thread about the super long waiting times?

Hell.....just get another FFL or second opinion from another FFL.

If you want a LEGAL OPINION, contact your lawyer or the AG's office with your question.

Tony617 · Jan 18, 2022

I have had the experience of shipping my M14 back to Bula Defense back in 2018. It was an RMA so I was emailed a UPS label. I kept the shipping box and it included a hard plastic case so taped it up and put my UPS label on. I had to take to the UPS depot which is close by. I am not sure if a UPS store would take the rifle or not since I didn't call.

I did have a FNX-9 malfunction numerous times in single action mode. I took it back to Cabela's where I bought it and took almost 30 days for repair and back to Cabela's.