SHARE THE ROAD! Bicycle thread

[MTpockets]

I am not sure how old some of the thread participants are...but back in my youth, we had bicycle licenses in the city (really it was a town of about 17,000+). But that was a long time ago when people didn't argue over the interwebs.

I can see how licensing could be beneficial if bicycle traffic continues to increase within cities. The monies could be used to emplace bicycle only routes and maintain lane signage.

A major issue in any city is available space. If you want to play, you have to pay. Portland happens to be very pro-bike. They weigh many factors when deciding on alternate transportation costs. Once the "costs" catch up with city, they will be looking for some way to collect. Who will pay and why?

Tri-met bus/trolley/max are great option for bicyclists who don't feel comfortable riding in the city. I take it now and then because I don't want the stress of driving myself, the irritation of finding parking and truthfully...it can be fairly entertaining.

There is really no need for a brochure or "share the road" campaign. The rules are already in place. Just respect your fellow human and let enforcement issue citations to those who feel entitled. Or better yet... hop a bus or train... you will see some funny shizzle.

Regards and Happy Trails,
MT

 

[MTpockets]

LOL... well if you're OK with all that, then I guess I can't help you, dude. Forward me your Political Action Committee for the Registration, Licensing, and Taxing of Bicyclists info? I'll donate a dollar.

I also sometimes walk on public sidewalks... where do I register my sneakers?

You are kind of getting a freebie for walking on the sidewalk. The businesses pay your fee in hopes that you will purchase something from their establishments.

 

[Jamie6.5]

"I didn't pay a dime? My 9% income tax, my fuel taxes from that $4,160, my property taxes, my registration and licensing fees don't count? How are bicyclists dimes not counted as dimes? Hipsters and students living in downtown areas who happen to not buy fuel (and wouldn't anyway, since they live downtown) still pay property (property taxes are included in your rent, or do you think landlords just eat that?) and income taxes. The tens of thousands of other bicyclists that commute in from the suburbs and surrounding towns all own and register cars and buy plenty of fuel."

And, again... we pay all of this, just like everyone else. and then we use the road less than everyone else.

So "tens of thousands of bicyclists eh,...
Lessee, let's assume its 3 of those,.... That makes $750,000.00 just for those 30,000, add in another 10K for the non-commuters that you claim are downtown hipsters, and at $25 each that would bring it to another $1,000,000.00 worth of revenue, with $800K to ODOT, and $200K to PPD for enforcement when bikers run stop signs and use lanes improperly etc,....
Then add-in the revenue from the citations and,............

Why looky there Ben! We've come up with a way for you folks to start paying your way!
Of course we're no where near the $40Million the budget guys want,......
Maybe a federal tax on bicycles and gear, kind of like Pittman-Robertson taxes on guns, scopes, slings etc, could contribute to the matching funds we get from the feds.
Whaddaya think Ben?

 

[The B]

So, since I pay those same taxes, should my NW Forest pass be free?
My Snow-park pass?
My OHV permit?
Should they be free too? Heck, by definition, my OHV isn't even USED on the roads, yet I have to pay the fee, and I have to put the permit on my truck!

I've been around boats all my life, yet I have to have an operators certification to drive one.
And I have to pay for that.
And the canoe, and the jonboat, and the big boat have to be permitted too. That costs money.
Shouldn't those be free? They aren't used on the roads,..... Well except the big boat, it gets towed and the trailer is licensed, so I'm paying again to use the roads.

Everybody pays,.... Except the bicyclists.
That wouldn't be "fair."

Gee,... where have I heard that before.

One more thing, though.... There's no requirement to register a canoe in Oregon. http://www.dmv.org/or-oregon/boat-registration.php

I don't know what a jonboat is, but aside from sailboats, I'm not aware of any non-motorized vehicle that needs to be registered. The NW Forest Pass and Snow Park Passes are parking passes, OHVs are motorized. Bikes, skateboards, shoes, rollerblades, stollers..... not quite the same. Bikes are defined as "vehicles" for use in traffic code, but even that definition doesn't apply outside of that context.

But yes, definitely, you should not have to pay any of that nonsense, and you know it. You're displacing your resent at having to onto bicyclists, I think.

 

[The B]

Whaddaya think Ben?

Already pay. Not paying more. Don't know what you want from me.

 

[Jamie6.5]

One more thing, though.... There's no requirement to register a canoe in Oregon. http://www.dmv.org/or-oregon/boat-registration.php

I don't know what a jonboat is, but aside from sailboats, I'm not aware of any non-motorized vehicle that needs to be registered. The NW Forest Pass and Snow Park Passes are parking passes, OHVs are motorized. Bikes, skateboards, shoes, rollerblades, stollers..... not quite the same. Bikes are defined as "vehicles" for use in traffic code, but even that definition doesn't apply outside of that context.

But yes, definitely, you should not have to pay any of that nonsense, and you know it. You're displacing your resent at having to onto bicyclists, I think.

Eau contrare! There is an Aquatic Invasive species Permit of $5 for all boats over 10 feet whether they are motorized or not:
<broken link removed>

So, in order to use a canoe in Oregon, I still have to pay. And my jonboat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_boat), since it has a motor is not only registered, but the AIP permit fee of $5.00 is surcharged onto the registration fee.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Already pay. Not paying more. Don't know what you want from me.

Well, we started with this:

Oh man, I think this is gonna be a fun thread.

What does "share the road" mean to you?? Please do tell- that's not a rhetorical question

You asked, I told you what it means to me.
And now you don't like what you've read, and are refusing to even acknowledge that maybe you should be paying something to ride your bike on public roads and bikepaths, and that there are "tens of thousands" of people like you in the greater Portland metro area.

I hope I have shed at least a little light on why there may be some resentment from car and truck drivers that you insist "share the road" with you and your fellow bike riders, even though you refuse to pay.
Especially when you get special privileges like dedicated lanes, and paths, and protective laws/enforcement
Things that drivers and taxpayers that don't ride bikes, must pay for when you refuse to.

Portlandia managed to justify a tax for teaching, and seeing, and listening to art.
It amazes me that they haven't been realistic about what bike riders cost them, and how it's paid for.
Maybe if other people weren't footing the bill?
Of course that would be "SHARE THE COST OF THE ROAD."

 

[Jamie6.5]

Now, about those damages when a bike rider runs a stop sign and hits a car,..........

 

[The B]

Well, we started with this:

You asked, I told you what it means to me.
And now you don't like what you've read, and are refusing to even acknowledge that maybe you should be paying something to ride your bike on public roads and bikepaths, and that there are "tens of thousands" of people like you in the greater Portland metro area.

We pay. As much as everyone else, AND we use the services exponentially less (can you use "exponentially" like that?).

You should try a different line of reasoning.. instead of just saying "you pay nothing" over and over, as if repetition or ignoring it's inaccuracy can somehow validate it.

Horse is kicked again...

 

[Jamie6.5]

You should try a different line of reasoning.. instead of just saying "you pay nothing" over and over, as if repetition or ignoring it's inaccuracy can somehow validate it.

You asked, and now you don't like the answer.

You should try reality.

And so should those other "tens of thousands."

 

[gunnoob75]

Lisence plates and road operator licences. Full size plates.

Some cyclist slid his bike along the side of my old truck while it was parked. Nothing I could do. Cops said to file a report and notify my own insurance.

 

[Certaindeaf]

They need to have a big ol license plate for when they hit/kill and run a little old lady crossing the street (etc.), they can be more easily held to account.

 

[Jdsrt]

After 15 years of commuting to and from Seattle, I can confidently say at least 60 percent of the bike riders constantly run lights, stop signs, cut through side walks and generally have a holier than thou attitude. If you do anything in a car that might make a bicyclist have to slightly apply their brake it usually results in getting flipped off, car spit on, kicked or get looked at like you just bubblegumed their grandmother last night.

I don't have the energy to get into the financial aspects of this debate so I'll not comment on that. I think others are covering that argument.

Oh and don't get me started on Critical Mass. I suggest anyone who has not herd of it to Google or you tube it.

 

[The B]

I've got some calls out to some references I've been given with PPB and PBOT looking for data on crashes between cars and cyclists. Statistics on this, specifically, don't really seem to exist, oddly enough... so it might take a while to crunch any data I can get my hands on.

I estimate crashes between cars:bikes to be 4:1 at-fault. Anyone care to throw in a wager? I'll publish my findings, with sources.

 

[The B]

After 15 years of commuting to and from Seattle, I can confidently say at least 60 percent of the bike riders constantly run lights, stop signs, cut through side walks and generally have a holier than thou attitude.

How? Guesstimate?

 

[Jamie6.5]

We pay. As much as everyone else, AND we use the services exponentially less (can you use "exponentially" like that?).

I say you use the services exponentially more. One lane of car traffic is sacrificed for every two bike lanes (one each way). So on a 4 lane road is reduced to 3 lanes, and the carrying capacity for cars is reduced by 25%, yet the traffic isn't. And yet the cost of the road didn't go down.
That road, and it's maintenance, and it's striping (additional striping especially for bikes) is all paid for at no additional cost to the bikers. When it gets repaved, it's not just the car lanes that get repaved and re-striped.
Parking schemes get changed for the sake of bikers.
Turn lanes get changed for the sake of bikers.
Bike racks are installed at transit stops and commerce centers for the sake of bikers.
Special signage is installed for bikers.

You don't pay as much
You pay no road tax, and no registration and/or licensing fees. Yet you require specialized equipment and maintenance, and the costs that those things amount to.

Yet you guys won't pay a measly $25-$50 annually for any of it, and act like it's owed to you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Jdsrt]

How? Guesstimate?

No, 15 years of personal experiences. And if my word doesn't have any bearing in the discussion because my post count isn't in the thousands or just because it doesn't agree with your beliefs then I'll concede now. Like others have said, you asked for it and you got it.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I've got some calls out to some references I've been given with PPB and PBOT looking for data on crashes between cars and cyclists. Statistics on this, specifically, don't really seem to exist, oddly enough... so it might take a while to crunch any data I can get my hands on.

I estimate crashes between cars:bikes to be 4:1 at-fault. Anyone care to throw in a wager? I'll publish my findings, with sources.

When you're done there, why don't you see how often the biker pays for damages, in Bike:Car accidents, in comparison to what/how often the drivers, or their InsCompanies pay for damages.
I'll wager it's close to, or exceeds 1,000:1 Drivers:Bikers.

 

[The B]

I say you use the services exponentially more. One lane of car traffic is sacrificed for every two bike lanes (one each way). So on a 4 lane road is reduced to 3 lanes, and the carrying capacity for cars is reduced by 25%, yet the traffic isn't. And yet the cost of the road didn't go down.

What, like one road down town? Where are these awesome bike roads?

That road, and it's maintenance, and it's striping (additional striping especially for bikes) is all paid for at no additional cost to the bikers.

Except that the costs come out of our income, property, car registration, licensing, and fees, just like you.

When it gets repaved, it's not just the car lanes that get repaved and re-striped.

Except that ours only need repaving and re-striping about once every 60 years.

Parking schemes get changed for the sake of bikers.
Turn lanes get changed for the sake of bikers.
Bike racks are installed at transit stops and commerce centers for the sake of bikers.
Special signage is installed for bikers.

For bikers AND drivers. Putting bikes in bike lanes is YOUR idea, not ours. We'd rather ride right in the road anyway.

You don't pay as much

Yea we do. But how would you know?

You pay no road tax,

Gas tax? We've clearly established that only those who wouldn't pay it anyway- people who don't drive whether they ride the bus or a bike- don't buy gas. EVERYONE else buys just as much as anyone else. Especially when you factor in the fact that our $5,000-$7,000+ bikes generally require above-average salaries to afford, putting us out in higher income neighborhoods with longer commutes, more expensive gasoline for our more expensive cars, and higher income and property tax.

and no registration and/or licensing fees.

I paid the same fees for my three cars as you did for yours. I don't know a single cyclist who doesn't drive.

Yet you require specialized equipment and maintenance, and the costs that those things amount to.

No, we don't. All we need is a road. I'd estimate my time spent in bike lanes is around 5% of my overall riding (180-200+ miles a week). And that includes segments I have to ride through in Portland (Willamette Blvd, Killingsworth, St. Johns, etc... very little bike lane action on Willamette, none anywhere else that I can think of).

Yet you guys won't pay a measly $25-$50 annually for any of it, and act like it's owed to you.

The right to go freely about ones business is serious. You've surrendered yours and are suggesting I surrender mine. No, I'll opt out of that one. Thanks.

Have a nice day.

Don't say that like you're not going to keep this up for another three pages.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The Road of Bones is Russia's answer to bicyclists grandiosity. lolz