Sgt. Kyle Nice under investigation for pulling gun and flipping motorist

[simpleguy]

How does that give any insight into how he performs on the job?

And that is the point, there are some guys that off the job are people you'd go shooting with, drink a beer, etc. But, give that same guy authority, they become a whole new person.

He may be a great guy, but he may not be the guy that needs to be in the peace officer business.

 

[DERGLOCKINMEISTER]

Sounds like a cowboy situation to me . I have driven thousands of miles in Oregon and had unpleasant interactions with more than one motorist , sometimes completely unprovoked , sometimes not , but I have always believed that if I were to pull my weapon in anything other than a life or death situation , I should be prepared to be arrested and have my gun taken at least temporarily . He was not acting in the capacity of a leo at the time , and his responsibility to act in a civilized manner was no different than any other citizen. I normally side with leo most of the time , but this smells like a power trip to me.

 

[SnackCracker]

First off, neither one of them should have EVER pulled over on the side of the road. Nothing good or productive is going to come of that.

Secondly, Why did Nice need to pull his gun first... shouldn't he have pulled out his badge (identifying himself as an LEO), and then if he felt he needed it, his gun also? It seems that identifying himself as an LEO would have prevented him from getting shot if the other guy was a CHL holder. I know that someone pulling a gun and walking towards my car means I'm going to GTFO of there... and if I can't get away, I'm pulling my gun, using my car as cover, and I'm shooting first!

Strictly my opinion - I think Nice was trying to bully the other driver by pulling out a gun. AND... he didn't want to show a badge because he knew he was being a dick and was out of line. But once it escalated to the police being called, he knew he'd be fine - you know - that whole "professional courtesy" thing


Edited to add...
My last road range incident: I was getting on the freeway and some jackass decided his jacked up monster truck didn't need to let me merge - actually sped up and run me onto the shoulder. He went by, laughing at me and gave me the finger. I smiled and returned the gesture. He proceeded to FLIP OUT and wanted me to pull over. I just stayed behind him and got off at the next exit - to which he almost ran off the road to make the exit with me. He was a really big guy (muscle head type) and tried to get me to pull over and "settle it". I finally lost him at an intersection when I cut a red light into traffic to get away. He probably thought I was a big p*$$y. But I actually did him a favor that day... I just so happened to be returning from the range and had a truck load of guns and was thoroughly "warmed up" on my shooting skills.
- Actually, I did us both a favor that day.

 

[bugeye]

I think every guy should be given three 'I acted like an idiot get out of trouble free cards' when then turn 18. If they become cops, teachers, doctors, nurses, public servants, have to work for crazy people or on computers, or elected political officals they should be given an additional card evey year. Limited to goofy behavior, not real crimes.

After all, we are men, and should be given some societal consideration for the fact our genetic ancestors were crazy enough to go out and try and club dinosaurs for dinner.

 

[simpleguy]

I think every guy should be given three 'I acted like an idiot get out of trouble free cards' when then turn 18. If they become cops, teachers, doctors, nurses, public servants, have to work for crazy people or on computers, or elected political officals they should be given an additional card evey year. Limited to goofy behavior, not real crimes.

After all, we are men, and should be given some societal consideration for the fact our genetic ancestors were crazy enough to go out and try and club dinosaurs for dinner.

I hear what you are saying here, but unfortunately our society now has trained EVERYONE to immediately say, "I DIDN'T DO IT, I KNOW NOTHING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!".........

This is where it all starts folks, man up, apologize if this is the case, then we move on. Deny it and recieve the wrath you deserve, as lying/denying is a poor example for all, especially for someone in a position of "authority".

 

[U201494]

If someone gets out of a car and starts walking towards me with a gun I will shoot them. On the other hand, I would never put myself in a situation like scrotumhead Nice did. I am sure Ruffin is one dumb bastard also. I have saved video and print copies of the Washington County Sheriff's statements on how he assessed this situation just in case I ever end up with my *** in a pickle for displaying a firearm to a jaggoff.

 

[Gunner3456]

I don't know this whole story for sure yet and I don't know the people. However, just for me.

1. I will never participate in road rage. I will instead do my best to get away from it. If I can't get away, then I will react as is plays out, against my will.

2. I will never willingly pull over to discuss such a thing.

3. Only if I am deliberately run off the road and my vehicle is disabled will I engage anyone. Next it would depend on what the other guy did as to what I would do, just as in any other self defense situation.

$.02

 

[22many]

As far as Sgt nice passing a psych evaluation, that just tells me that he is a good manipulater.

 

[SteelyDan]

Events like this do make the sanest among us begin to question things. If this cop acts like this off duty in front of his child, what would he be like alone in a dark alley?

There is so many other "zero tolerance" scenarios why isnt this one of him? Just because he's a cop he gets extra priveleges? If a ten year old mimed brandishing he would be expelled from school!

Police agencies dump your trash!

 

[gunnails]

The police interact with thousands of people daily we don't often here about all of the positive interactions. I have a great deal of respect for the challenges that the modern LEO faces today and am thankful for the service they perform for all of us.

Seems to be a pattern with this Nice fellow, his superiors need to take a good hard look at his overall performance.

This incident seems to be a fairly minor one in the scheme of things, although I think brandishing a weapon as reported in the links is serious, and considering the officers past history represent a more serrious issue.

Is brandishing a felony?

 

[tionico]

Excluding right or wrong, if the roles were reversed and the civi pulled the gun, he would be up on criminal charges. He would be in jail for a long time if he didn't get shot and killed by a huge entourage of responding police.

This is another prime example of why the public has a declining lack of respect or need for the police. The feeling that laws and rules don't apply to them because they are sanctioned by the State with immunity from performed coercion. The lack of enforcing and policing their own. Even the so called "good ones" will be forced to back the unjust in their actions through peer pressure or outright infractions (desk job/unpaid leave). The police unions have a big hand in that function.

Class warfare at it's finest. Public vs. Private. Enjoy your hi-tech feudalism, plebe.

Slide's got it right. Or, even take away the fact that one was an off duty cop with his badge and gun along for the ride. If that were two non-LEO motorists having such a spat, and the one who pulled over and got out to approach the other car was armed, and presented, with or without a CHL, he'd be written up on brandishing, at least. Perhaps worse, for being the aggressor in an otherwise easily defusible situation.

Yup, the unions have made it near impossible for the bad apples to get tossed. And the present Portland police unions are up in arms that the management want to have contract negotiations meetings be public, open, in the light?

When will the people of Portland take back THEIR city? Sure, the Washington county cop refused to slam the off duty cop for presenting his weapon. Oregon law clearly states the requirements for the presentation of deadly force, and NONE of the accounts of this situation warrant deadly force being involved. They both (WCSO and PPB) probably belong to the same union...... nothing like a little chumminess to help a brother out, right? If that had been me presenting, I'd have some legal footwork to do... and rightly so. When someone is following ME, I ignore them long enough for them to give up and go away. Sometimes I'll even start making large circles.... four right turns in a row will usually get the message. The whiles, I'm on the phone for some marked car backup. Guaranteed to neutralise any confrontation. And this cop's got a pattern of such belligerence? Yeah, put HIM in the property locker. Portland's got too many of that kind of creep. No wonder the folks don't like the cops.

 

[AKMark]

Sure, the Washington county cop refused to slam the off duty cop for presenting his weapon. Oregon law clearly states the requirements for the presentation of deadly force, and NONE of the accounts of this situation warrant deadly force being involved. They both (WCSO and PPB) probably belong to the same union...... nothing like a little chumminess to help a brother out, right?

No, not the same union, but the jurisdictions do overlap so the relationship is more politically sensitive than WCSO and Gresham PD, etc. The Deputy may well have been pinched between what he knew was right and what he was allowed to do because of the politics. I'd love to hear conversation between the deputy and his supervisor.

 

[Gunner3456]

I'm not defending the cop. Sounds like he might be a loose cannon - can't tell what exactly happened.

About "brandishing." Doesn't brandishing require displaying a weapon in a threatening rather than a defensive manner? I see cops draw their weapons to search a dark back yard or alley or even a house. It's a state of readiness "just in case."

I wouldn't let some "road rage" guy follow me home, but I sure wouldn't pull over either, especially if I had a child with me. I suppose maybe I'd get the license number in my rear view mirror and dial 911.

I think that maybe the only thing the cop has going for him here is that the other guy appears to have been following him in anger, and that the cop had a child to protect.

Also, I believe that a vehicle can be used as a deadly weapon.

If you are following me and threatening me with your vehicle, I don't know what my rights are. I don't know that this happened in this case. I don't know what happened.

If I feel threatened by your actions and I pull my gun and hold it down at my side, especially if I have a child to protect, I'm going to argue strenuously against brandishing.

 

[ZachS]

Yeah... the exact crime that Sgt. Nice did or (most likely) didn't commit isn't really at issue - his judgment and temperament are.

 

[Atroxus]

I'm not defending the cop. Sounds like he might be a loose cannon - can't tell what exactly happened.

About "brandishing." Doesn't brandishing require displaying a weapon in a threatening rather than a defensive manner? I see cops draw their weapons to search a dark back yard or alley or even a house. It's a state of readiness "just in case."

I wouldn't let some "road rage" guy follow me home, but I sure wouldn't pull over either, especially if I had a child with me. I suppose maybe I'd get the license number in my rear view mirror and dial 911.

I think that maybe the only thing the cop has going for him here is that the other guy appears to have been following him in anger, and that the cop had a child to protect.

Also, I believe that a vehicle can be used as a deadly weapon.

If you are following me and threatening me with your vehicle, I don't know what my rights are. I don't know that this happened in this case. I don't know what happened.

If I feel threatened by your actions and I pull my gun and hold it down at my side, especially if I have a child to protect, I'm going to argue strenuously against brandishing.

If protecting his child was his first priority, then pulling over was the WORST way to go about it. The best way to keep his kid safe would have been to avoid a confrontation rather than seek one out.

 

[simpleguy]

Yeah... the exact crime that Sgt. Nice did or (most likely) didn't commit isn't really at issue - his judgment and temperament are.

I agree with you on the judgment/temperment issue.

As for the crime element, I agree, "technically" he probably did not commit a "crime" due to the fact that he is a police officer. It kills me to even write that, but officers need a certain amount of "lattitude", saddly this is the perfect example of what this "lattitude" is not meant for......

 

[Gunner3456]

I'd never willingly participate in road rage. I'd do my best to get the heck away, but maybe this cop did participate like an idiot.

However, there's a big difference between flipping someone off or yelling at them, and actually beginning to follow them which to me is threatening.

It sounds to me as if possibly they were both guilty of participating in the road rage part (if it happened) but maybe that the other guy decided to escalate it to following and trying to wave the cop down. If so, I think everything the cop did from stopping to pulling a gun and flashing a badge was stupid if not technically illegal.

Regardless of what happens to the cop, there's a lesson to be learned here.

 

[Atroxus]

I'd never willingly participate in road rage. I'd do my best to get the heck away, but maybe this cop did participate like an idiot.

However, there's a big difference between flipping someone off or yelling at them, and actually beginning to follow them which to me is threatening.

It sounds to me as if possibly they were both guilty of participating in the road rage part (if it happened) but maybe that the other guy decided to escalate it to following and trying to wave the cop down. If so, I think everything the cop did from stopping to pulling a gun and flashing a badge was stupid if not technically illegal.

Regardless of what happens to the cop, there's a lesson to be learned here.

Since we don't have a duty to retreat in washington, then I would agree that nothing the officer did was technically illegal. However his actions show poor impulse control and decision making in a potentially dangerous situation. If he can't control himself with his kid in the car, why would anyone think he would do better while in uniform? I don't think he should face criminal charges, but I don't think he should be able to remain a police officer either.


Oops disregard the duty to retreat thing, I forgot this happened in Oregon. I don't know what the laws regarding duty to retreat are there.

 

[baalzebubba]

Why didn't Nice call in the driver to 911 instead of endangering his child and others on the motorway for something that could have clearly been avoided.

Before I consider pulling, I use my head first, then my feet.

Cant help thinking that if it was a Joe Blow OC or any other civilian, the deputy would have taken a much more serious tone with the person brandishing the weapon.

I have friends in LE that work hard every day to set an example that they apply the law consistently and appropriately. The initial decisions of the intervening deputy should be reviewed as well as scrutiny of both of the road rage parties.

geez

 

[Stomper]

Since we don't have a duty to retreat in washington, then I would agree that nothing the officer did was technically illegal. However his actions show poor impulse control and decision making in a potentially dangerous situation. If he can't control himself with his kid in the car, why would anyone think he would do better while in uniform? I don't think he should face criminal charges, but I don't think he should be able to remain a police officer either.


Oops disregard the duty to retreat thing, I forgot this happened in Oregon. I don't know what the laws regarding duty to retreat are there.

On March 29 2007, the Oregon Supreme Court ruled that Oregonians have no "duty to retreat" when faced with a violent confrontation.