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Setting up my long range rifle - what are my options here?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Liberty97045, Oct 19, 2014.

  1. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    So this is what we have, a Savage 10FCP-SR .308
    http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/savage-model-10-fcp-sr-sniper-rifle-new-gun-review/

    A Vortex scope
    http://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-ffp-riflescope.html

    A GG&G accu cam mount
    http://www.opticsplanet.com/gg-g-accucam-quick-detach-base-w-integral-30mm-rings-for-bolt-guns.html

    Zero is 200 yards, intended use is target 400+ Rifle is stock

    The specs say I have a 20 MOA rail but my scope (MIL/MIL) is zeroed up 1-1/2 revolutions or about 7-8 MRADs so I am not sure if I really do. I don't know how to tell the difference.

    As you can see from the picture, I am not able to cheek weld. The scope is at 2.25" and forward to fit my height.

    I am NOT looking for high dollar suggestions like an accuracy international chassis or a new scope, etc. I would consider changing the scope mount but best case that will lower this scope 1/4".

    What I am looking for are specific recommendations to fix the current set up like a Karsten cheek piece, length of pull adjustment etc. I need to change the rail so I need input on how much.



    photo_zpsc8bc596f.jpg

    5be98688bedabafb80d09348d0f2faeb_zpsa73d89b4.jpg
     
  2. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Cheek weld is imperative for consistent, precision shooting.
    If that camera mount isn't an imperative for you, I'd dump it and mount the scope lower/closer to the bore/barrel. Or at least get the lowest rings possible for it. The current combo of mount/rings is the problem.
    A 50mm objective, while great for light gathering is tough enough to mount low. In your case, it appears the camera mount is exacerbating the problem. But the ring height isn't helping either.

    Your only other solution is to have the stock modified to accept an adjustable cheek rest.
    You might see if you can borrow a set of conventional mounts and rings, and see if that drops the scope low enough to get a good, solid, repeatable cheek weld.
     
    Spitpatch likes this.
  3. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    A 20 MOA base will be much lower in the front than in the back
     
    Liberty97045 likes this.
  4. erslll

    erslll Hermiston OR Active Member

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    Can you define much lower?

    The way I figure it, 20 MOA over say a 6" base is .06-.07". Someone can correct me if I am wrong.
     
  5. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    My scope at 200 yard zero is up 7 mil (about 24moa) from the zero indicator on the turret. I found the manufacturers stamp and the scope base is not a 20 MOA. I have an EGW 109150 - Zero MOA.

    So I am looking at the steel Night Force 20 MOA model A-168. Is Night Force worth the price? $116 seems steep.
     
  6. erslll

    erslll Hermiston OR Active Member

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    I think Nightforce is worth the money. Seekins and Badger are two others that come to mind.


    I agree with the above post though. I think you should figure out some way to get a good cheek weld. Longer length of pull and a cheek riser both look necessary to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  7. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    Here is the plan, tell me what you think.
     
  8. alphapygmy

    alphapygmy Yamhill County Active Member

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    Here's how I set up my Savage 10PC. I used 30mm Burris Dual Dovetail rings with the Signature inserts, -.010 in front and +.010 in back to mount the Bushnell 6-24x50 tac scope. I also built a homemade cheekrest for about $12. You can see the scope is nice and low, at least as low as you can get a 50mm scope. There's just enough room to slip on lens caps or a mirage shield and not touch the barrel.
    Nightforce is excellent if that's what you get. I've just used the dual dovetail setups for years and after many good tumbles and falls in the woods I've never lost a zero so that's what I stick with. I also really like the tunability of the Signature inserts.
    sav1_zps5621630c.jpg
    sav2_zpscb6ad087.jpg
    sav3_zps3d3cea14.jpg
     
  9. hondakilla98

    hondakilla98 beaverton, or Active Member

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    If you don't want to mod the stock. I have a check rest that straps on. But first I'd get the scope as low as you can. If you have some calipers you could take some measurements and see how tall your rings will need to be. If you're on a budget the EGW 20 moa base is a good option and around $35. It worked well my friends 10pc.
     
  10. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    GG&G is 1.060" and even using a LaRue ultra low at 0.875", I only gain a tad over 1/8" and I have about 1/2" available to lower the scope. This GG&G would be great for a flat top AR but not so much in this application.

    I like the idea of the Burris and eliminating the rail altogether. The 30mm Signature rings should work. Thanks for the tip!;) And it's cheaper than buying the rail! :)

    Questions:
    • Does the dovetail base add any height? If so, how much?
    • Do you know how many MOA you created by dropping the objective 0.020?
     
  11. alphapygmy

    alphapygmy Yamhill County Active Member

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    I'm not sure what your first question is asking. My base and ring combo gets the 50mm scope as low as you can go and still put a lens cover on. For the second question, the +/-.010 combo gets me around 15MOA. That's the most you can get with the 30mm rings as they only have "0" and +/- ".010" inserts. So with a 0 and a 10 you'll get about 7-8 MOA, with both the 10's you'll get around 15. This would only be accurate on a short action Savage. The distance between the rings changes the formula for how much change you get. If your rings are further apart, like on a long action you will get less MOA. My ring spacing is around 4.85" giving me just under 15 MOA. A long action with 6" ring spacing would only get 12 MOA. I've been shooting a 260 Rem. out to around 800 and I've had no problems maxing out my scope. I just swapped on a 308 barrel and have yet to work things up to 800 so I don't know when I'll run out of scope with the new caliber. 800 is about the max distance I can get where I'm at and I'm sure that won't be a problem.
     
  12. alphapygmy

    alphapygmy Yamhill County Active Member

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    I just noticed Burris discontinued the 30mm DD Sig. rings. There's only a few left here and there. Maybe not tactical enough in a "tacticool" world?
     
  13. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    What about the Burris Signature 30mm universal?
    http://www.burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html
    Also, the inserts for these are available in 0.005", 0.010" & 0.020"

    Judging by your results of 7.5 MOA per 0.010" of adjustment, I should need 0.030" to 0.035" of adjustment. Since the inserts are cheap I will buy a 0.020" and a 0.005" and see where I land.

    From Burris:
    "Signature Rings are available in 1" and 30mm sizes and can be used with standard, dovetail, double-dovetail, and Weaver-style bases."

    My question was that the measurements shown are of the ring. I will need a base which will add height to that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
  14. alphapygmy

    alphapygmy Yamhill County Active Member

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    I'm fairly sure the 30mm inserts are only available in o and +/-.010. Look at the bottom right of the chart, there's an asterisk saying 30mm have 0 and .010.
    Anyway, I personally won't use the universal style, too much risk of the rear windage setup moving or not holding tight. I have used the Signature Zee rings and they were okay. My one complaint would be that the cross screw was a flat head drive and you can't get it very tight but I thought I heard they have since switched to a torx head. If you use the Zee rings you'll still need a mounting rail, might as well get the 20MOA.
    I took a couple measurements. I'm using the extra tall DD rings that are 1.02" from center of scope to base of ring. Also, my total spacing from the top of the receiver to bottom of scope tube was about .625."
    If you plan on tinkering alot with your Savage I would recommend joining Savageshooters.com. It's worth the small yearly subscription fee for a ton of knowledge and the classifieds. There's probably 50 guys with your rifle and scope combo that could tell you what base and ring combo worked well.
    Since you can't get Burris DD stuff anymore I'm not sure how much of any of this will help. Probably the .625" measurement might get you close in figuring a rail and some other rings.
     
  15. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    http://www.burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html
    The chart on this webpage shows 0.005", 0.010" & 0.020" inserts for signature rings (just above the asterix explaination)

    Check these out!
    http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtrrings.html

    From my receiver crown to center scope is 1.50"
    My objective end clearance is 0.570"
    If I put on a 20moa rail and a 0.875 ring, o should be down in the 1/4" 3/8" neighborhood.

    Thanks for the tip on savage shooters.com, I will check it out.
     
  16. alphapygmy

    alphapygmy Yamhill County Active Member

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    I used the Burrix XTR rings on my target rifle and they were nice. I can't remember what 20MOA base I used. I think it's a Ken Farrell steel. I used the medium height rings on a 8-32x56 scope and there probably .15-.2" between the barrel and scope. They're almost too high but they work for a bench setup with a cheek rest.
     
  17. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    Leupold reversible dovetail base #55742. With the rear mount towards the muzzle I should be able to push the rear ring and the scope forward where I need it.

    The rings are Burris Signature 420582 extra high. With zero MOA I should have 0.30" under the objective. After adjusting to +20MOA I anticipate 1/8" or so at the end of my 4"sunshade.

    I just paid for the rings on eBay so it will be a a couple of weeks until I post pictures of the finished product.

    Thanks to all who gave advice. If anyone wants to buy the GG&G mount, PM me.

    I still need a cheek rest.
     
  18. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    BTW, the mounts are 1/4" from receiver crown to where it mates with the ring. I couldn't find this info anywhere. Even Burris customer care didn't know. I had to buy it and measure before finishing the math.
     
  19. PORSCHE928S4

    PORSCHE928S4 Newport, Oregon Active Member

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    Put a DNZ game reaper one piece rings and mount get the one with 20 MOA medium height should clear the 50mm and get you low .
     
  20. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    DNZ isn't a bad mid-ranged choice at all. Used one for about a year, worked just fine.

    If you don't mind drilling into the stock yourself, making two wholes in the top and slowly lining up wood onto it can make you a nice solid check weld. Works the same as the Karsten cheek piece, but is more custom to you.

    In the past I've used an old mouse pad, cut it into 1.5" width segments and stacked the up until I had a solid check weld. Then duck tapped them down. Sure it looks like hell, but it gave me an idea of just how much I needed to stack up for when I got my final stock.

    The idea is to have no change in your sight picture from a closed eye to opened eye. Basically, you want to lay down, close your eye, then open it and see directly down the topic with no scope shadow. It should also be comfortable, so comfortable you can sleep on it.

    Lastly, if you aren't planning to go much past 600 yards, then you really don't need the additional 20MOA rail with a .308. If you are pushing 800 yards it may be required, between 900 to 1100 yards is where you will really need it. Not that it is a bad idea to start with it, but depending on your application you may not require it.