Semi-truck targeted with shotgun while driving westbound through Snoqualmie Pass

Boboclown

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The truck driver should have driven them off the road and stacked them up. WSP wouldn't have too far to look.
Trust me when I say the temptation is certainly there, but no matter the situation they will almost always go after the truck driver. In situations where the law does not slam the driver, the company inevitably will. So even if they face no charges, the company says no dice. You damaged our property, you caused severe injury and/or death, and cost them money in civil court.
 
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Trust me when I say the temptation is certainly there, but no matter the situation they will almost always go after the truck driver. In situations where the law does not slam the driver, the company inevitably will. So even if they face no charges, the company says no dice. You damaged our property, you caused severe injury and/or death, and cost them money in civil court.
Do those civil liabilities suddenly disappear if the truck driver gets killed over the cargo? I think not!

Never be the aggressor but always refuse to be the victim.
 

Boboclown

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Do those civil liabilities suddenly disappear if the truck driver gets killed over the cargo? I think not!

Never be the aggressor but always refuse to be the victim.
I'm not saying what I personally would do, just telling you that often driver gets the short end of the stick. Hate what I said all ya want, that's just how the industry works.

They're trying to push for 18 year olds to be able to drive OTR just to have more drivers so they can cut their operating costs even lower, so if you do it you better know you're looking for a new job right after. I'm good to be out of work for half a year to look for a new job, not everyone is.
 
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I'm not saying what I personally would do, just telling you that often driver gets the short end of the stick. Hate what I said all ya want, that's just how the industry works.

They're trying to push for 18 year olds to be able to drive OTR just to have more drivers so they can cut their operating costs even lower, so if you do it you better know you're looking for a new job right after. I'm good to be out of work for half a year to look for a new job, not everyone is.
Oh I don't hate what you said or even really disagree. Yes the law and the employer is going after the driver if they did something like that but that doesn't negate the fact that the family can go after the employer as well if the driver complies and ends up getting killed over it. No matter how the scenario plays out it costs the employer. Even if it's just a lost load with the best outcome possible.
 

Mikej

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I'm not saying what I personally would do, just telling you that often driver gets the short end of the stick. Hate what I said all ya want, that's just how the industry works.

They're trying to push for 18 year olds to be able to drive OTR just to have more drivers so they can cut their operating costs even lower, so if you do it you better know you're looking for a new job right after. I'm good to be out of work for half a year to look for a new job, not everyone is.
I don't know how you guys do it anyway! Man, back in the day, respect was given to truckers. Early '70s when I started driving, road trips with a buddy were a great form of entertainment. Truckers were given maximum respect. Now days, a lot of truckers suck, and need to be watched real close.

Listening to lard Larson on the radio a couple days ago talking to a gal that must have been in "The Biz". She had valid reasons for being against dropping the age to 18. Lard obviously has no clue of what it's like. I have no real clue, but I've spent enough time on the open road to know a person has to have something special to be driving one of those rigs.
 

Hemlock

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I did my time in a "Big Rig" back in the Midwest in the late 70's. I pulled everything from dry freight to livestock to oversized flatbed loads, but never a tanker. Most of my runs involved going to or through Chicago. I tried to time it to make the Windy at night, but that didn't always work out. Day time deliveries there were a pain to say the least. Good lookin' "seat covers" made the traffic jams tolerable. If you committed to it, it was a good life back then. Now, I don't know if I'd even try.
 
I don't know how you guys do it anyway! Man, back in the day, respect was given to truckers. Early '70s when I started driving, road trips with a buddy were a great form of entertainment. Truckers were given maximum respect. Now days, a lot of truckers suck, and need to be watched real close.

Listening to lard Larson on the radio a couple days ago talking to a gal that must have been in "The Biz". She had valid reasons for being against dropping the age to 18. Lard obviously has no clue of what it's like. I have no real clue, but I've spent enough time on the open road to know a person has to have something special to be driving one of those rigs.
Doesn’t much matter what it’s like. If you can be handed a rifle and go to war, you can be handed a license and trained to drive a truck.

Full legal adult is full legal adult.
 
The problem with 18 year old professional drivers is science. Why do rental car companies rent to drivers over 25 without extra cost and why do insurance rates go down at 25? Science. The prefrontal cortex (that part of the brain that says, "Hey, that's a really stupid idea!" generally develops by when? You guessed it, 25. (My wife asks me what's my excuse since I've had more than double the time!)

Are there 18 year olds who can do it? Sure. But insurance companies and rental car companies have about 100 years of data by now and don't like paying claims. Keep in mind this 18 year old (BTW, a huge percentage of fleet crashes with professional drivers are during their first few years at a new company) with a crash rate that is extremely high due to their age as well, may be the one transporting Hazmat next to our families at a railway crossing and forgets to stop because he was still not comfortable with the equipment. Given the number of miles truck drive each year, it's about risk reduction.
 
There are so many people on the roads in cars, that clearly don't belong there. It's not just training.
Sure. But you miss my point. Many people don’t belong on the road, and much of regular licensing is far too lenient IMO…but age is not a determining factor where full adults are concerned.

The problem with 18 year old professional drivers is science. Why do rental car companies rent to drivers over 25 without extra cost and why do insurance rates go down at 25? Science. The prefrontal cortex (that part of the brain that says, "Hey, that's a really stupid idea!" generally develops by when? You guessed it, 25. (My wife asks me what's my excuse since I've had more than double the time!)

Are there 18 year olds who can do it? Sure. But insurance companies and rental car companies have about 100 years of data by now and don't like paying claims. Keep in mind this 18 year old (BTW, a huge percentage of fleet crashes with professional drivers are during their first few years at a new company) with a crash rate that is extremely high due to their age as well, may be the one transporting Hazmat next to our families at a railway crossing and forgets to stop because he was still not comfortable with the equipment. Given the number of miles truck drive each year, it's about risk reduction.
Yep. The data says what we all knew to be true for thousands of years: young males are dumb risk takers.

But, how many people here, for example, went from 16+ with no at fault accidents? My own case? I’m in my 30’s and have no at fault collisions, though I’ve been hit a few times.

Insurance companies don’t do interviews. They don’t ascertain maturity or life experience for each individual. A trucking company about to employ someone would - and there are far and away better metrics to someone’s risk than age.

And for anyone that does want to make the argument that science says 25 is about the age cognitive ability finishes developing, I’ll argue back: then why not raise the age of full adulthood/citizenship?

My issue is with the idea of discriminating against legal adults/citizens in any form while simultaneously being A-Okay with the selective service and military service of what we deem to be not fully developed “kids.”

I’m not trying to put words in your mouth - simply saying that, to me, these issues are inherently linked.
 
But, how many people here, for example, went from 16+ with no at fault accidents? My own case? I’m in my 30’s and have no at fault collisions, though I’ve been hit a few times.

Insurance companies don’t do interviews. They don’t ascertain maturity or life experience for each individual. A trucking company about to employ someone would - and there are far and away better metrics to someone’s risk than age.
@Hueco, huge respect for your post as usual! Thanks for the conversation. As for 16 year old drivers, they are clearly the most likely to cause a collision based on age. The only tiny subcategory worse are brand new 18 year old drivers (same lack of experience, less or no parental supervision). Massive trend over the past 15 years is for new drivers to wait longer to get their licenses. This means at 18 many, not all, young drivers have less "game film" of how to react when something bad happens. THIS is actually what makes us better drivers. It makes professional (truck) drivers the best on the road. They spend 10 hours a day watching stupid stuff people do and avoiding it.

A mature 18 year old is good, but he/she still does not have the game film someone with a few more years' experience has and there is still the issue with the brain development. I'm all for seeing if there is a (safe) way to try and incorporate these young, willing folks into these great jobs. Just think we do need to have our eyes open to the challenges. I split my time between firearms training and consulting / training for transportation industry and trust me, they are all trying to find this answer.

Now if you really want to make it more difficult, try finding folks under 25 that can pass a drug test!!!
 

Boboclown

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Oh I don't hate what you said or even really disagree. Yes the law and the employer is going after the driver if they did something like that but that doesn't negate the fact that the family can go after the employer as well if the driver complies and ends up getting killed over it. No matter how the scenario plays out it costs the employer. Even if it's just a lost load with the best outcome possible.
They can try but it'd just end up with a settlement at best. Drivers get screwed over no matter what.

I remember a while back a lady lost control of her vehicle and crashed into a Werner truck, which resulted in injuries and one fatality, Werner driver maintained his lane and kept control. They still sued Werner and the driver, and the court sided with the woman. Even though the driver was going a safe speed and kept control.
 

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