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Selling a new gun?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by jaybird013, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. jaybird013

    jaybird013 Florida Member

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    If you want to sell a Brand new gun that you have not used, fired or anything. Do you have to list it as used by state law? Could you face criminal charges for listing as brand new(even though it is new). The reason being I have a guy threatening me on Gunbroker about this.
     
  2. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    It is used as you have purchased it new from a dealer. You can state it "as new and unfired" if Florida laws say something in regaurds to how you sell it. If someone on GB is threatening you just report them or ignore them. Because you legally purchased it and never fired it and have now decided to sell it does not change the fact it is a private party sale.
     
  3. jaybird013

    jaybird013 Florida Member

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    Here is what he wrote: There is about 5 other emails as well.
    So what is really awesome is that I'm (very good) friends the senior prosecuting attorney in the federal courthouse here in north/central Florida region and I personally know the ATF agent who handles cases involving FFL holders and unlicensed individuals... and my cousin is a cop down south and Im a combat wounded veteran, so your brother in law doesnt scare me in any way shape or form so I suggest that you don't try to intimidate anyone with that anymore because it could possibly get him fired and get you thrown in jail.. And what is even funnier is that I now have a record of you trying to intimidate me with your brother in laws position as deputy, but I am going to ensure that you get prosecuted for not only fraudulently advertising the gun but also for threatening me. I did not have any knowledge of where you bought the gun, and it doesn't matter. You're even dumber than I thought before, it's not what I think is a used gun, its what federal law thinks is a used gun and I have the big white ATF regulation book right here to look it up in whenever I want. I own a firearms manufacturing business and I do KNOW what the law is, I don't just "think" I know. I'm a fully licensed type 07 ffl holder. You can think this conversation is over, but you will likely be facing criminal charges now. I wasn't such a dick until you lied to me and were disrespectful and now that you think you can intimidate me with your brother in laws meaningless position, Im gonna be a bigger dick and push this as hard as I can


    By the way I did not Threaten him I just told him my brother-in-law was a deputy. What do you make of this?
     
  4. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    A young kid or a loon, ignore him. I assume that Florida laws let you sell face to face privately in same state or ship through a FFL to their FFL in other states. If that is what the local laws are you should be good, but I would read the state laws to be safe.
     
  5. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Very simple. There is no "ATF Law" about how you advertise a gun. Assuming you sent it to an FFL you did nothing wrong. Open a claim with GB, report the buyer and lock him. Problem solved. GB will take care of bubblegumty buyers and sellers.
     
  6. jaybird013

    jaybird013 Florida Member

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    I'm not a loon but I don't like being threatened by some guy that I have no idea who he is.
    And I have ignored him. Every gun I have bought has been at a shop or through a FFL. So no worries there. I just don't want this jackass sending some goons knocking at my door trying to intimidate me.

    I reported him and he won the auction but refused to pay because I listed it new which it is. And he says it is used because I bought it new.
    He gave me a F and I gave him one back with a Non-paying bidder report and Fraud.
     
  7. CAL30M1

    CAL30M1 Longview, WA Active Member

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    Man... in my opinion that guy sounds like a loon.
     
  8. jaybird013

    jaybird013 Florida Member

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    It's just aggrevating when someone is such a know it all and then threatens you with the ATF and his Federal buddies when I haven't broken any laws.
     
  9. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    He is the loon and if you get hassled by someone just get names and badge numbers but I doubt you will get hassled. This guy I'm sure is someone selling something similar and angry you are listing it as new and cheaper than his used listing.
     
  10. jaybird013

    jaybird013 Florida Member

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    Heres's some more BS he wrote:
    Wow, you really don't get it do you. You did break a law- you are advertising a used gun as new, intentionally misleading. I cannot be a non paying bidder when I have copy of your email saying " ...So I will just keep it and you can keep your money.
    Sorry but that's just how I feel..." That probably won't work out for you so well. It is not new, it is a used gun, you are a private individual who cannot legally sell a "new" gun for one simple reason- every single gun you possess is either used or you are illegally in possession of a firearm that was not gained through proper procedures and at that point are breaking a whole new set of laws pertaining to sale of firearms by unlicensed individuals. What dont you understand about that? The fact that you may or may not have ever even taken it out of the case does not matter, the gun is still legally a used gun and must be advertised as such. That makes you a liar and it means you are falsely advertising the sale of the item. I will do my best to get your account deleted from gunbroker so I dont have to worry about bidding on any of your auctions.

    I have a +64 rating with a -1 now from this guy. He has +1 and -1. How funny is that.
     
  11. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Real simple from this point answer NONE of his emails. Keep copies though just in the VERY unlikely event something happens.

    From what you have posted you have broken no laws so the worst he could do is try and take you to small claims court. Again file with GB with the information you have and the emails. It will get taken care of.
     
  12. PX4WA

    PX4WA Tacoma, WA Active Member

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    sounds like he changed his mind after bidding and is looking for a way out... or he's in the resale business and you were competing with a sale he was going to post... or he's some loser with nothing to do...

    if he really wanted it it would not have mattered... even if it was new... it will be used when he signs for it... no logic in his argument really...

    people can claim knowing anybody, makes no difference... unless you claimed to be an FFL you did not break any laws... and if there was no sale... then can't have broken any law at all... doesn't matter if you advertised it as being sealed in box... it's small claims court not ATF worthy...

    with all the work the prosecutors have to do with a small budget, no prosecutor will ever take this case even if there was a remote legal backing to it... and if ever one did send you any notice/intimidation, feel free to file a complaint with the state bar association for abuse of power... a public prosecutor cannot get involved in a private party squabble unless a criminal case is filed... or he is retained as an attorney... if he uses government letterhead to intimidate you, then he just abused his position for personal gain (even if it was non-monetary)...

    no lawyer will be stupid enough to risk their job for a guy they just know...
     
  13. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    So, what's his problem? Did he buy it from you? Did he want to buy it from you and missed out?

    Sure seems like we're missing a lot of the story.

    Eight U.S. Presidents have been NRA members. They are: Ulysses S. Grant,
    Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower,
    John F. Kennedy, Richard M. Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George Bush

    80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    Washington Arms Collector member
    South West Washington Arms Collector member
     
  14. jaybird013

    jaybird013 Florida Member

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    How could he take me to small claims court when nothing was purchased?
     
  15. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    We need the whole story then.

    What happened in full?
     
  16. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Tell him to go pound sand.
     
  17. jaybird013

    jaybird013 Florida Member

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    He was the winning bidder. Then he asked if I was an FFL or Individual.
    I am an individual which I deal with a local FFL dealer all the time with shipping handguns.
    He did not pay for anything.
    He just started going on and on how it is not new because I purchased it new, then it is now used. Then he said I was misleading saying it was new and was agianst the law.

    Here is some more: I think you are missing my point. Of course you can sell it, but as a private individual, by default, you cannot own a brand new in box gun because anything you possess is by default a used gun. That is the sole point where my lack of trust comes in. I read all of your feedback and because is it all positive, I was willing to consider continuing the transaction initially. So to get to the part about calling you a liar- yes, thats basically what I'm doing. And I'm also reporting you to gunbroker and sending them copies of these emails because they show that you are intentionally selling a used gun as a new firearm. You said you know the laws, so I believe you know that you are selling a used gun and falsely advertising it as new. That is a crime and I'm considering forwarding a copy of all correspondence to the ATF, as well as the copy of the auction from Gunbroker. I do not tolerate people who lie to me. You lied to me atleast once, potentially twice depending on how the situation is viewed. If you really do know the laws as you say, you lied to me when you initially listed the item. If you do not know the laws and just said you did to be cool or to try to get a leg up on me or whatever other reason you could have, then you lied to me then. I personally believe you lied to me twice by posting the auction as you did and by trying to cover it up by saying it doesnt fit your description of a used gun, because afterall, you do know the law too. There is absolutely no reason for you to have disrespected me at any point when I questioned you about this (respectfully) as I have legitimate reason to question you on this sale, but for some reason you have continued to try me at every possible chance. I will not be purchasing anything from you now or in the future. I feel sorry for your wife not having a job, but I have no sympathy for anyone who intentionally misleads people

    I didn't disrespect him he disrespected me by calling me a liar.
     
  18. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Post dox.
     
  19. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now I am caught up.

    He is an idiot. Don't worry at all, you did nothing wrong. Follow my earlier advice of do not email, mail, talk, smoke signal him ANYTHING at all. Open the report with GB and it will be taken care of.
     
    moose and (deleted member) like this.
  20. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    If I recall correctly it is stated if the seller is an FFL or non FFL right in the ad so how does he feel that you missrepresented yourself in that aspect.