Self Defense at a rally

[etrain16]

If at a pro 2A rally & the opposition shows up then we are expected to leave? F*** THAT!!! We are getting steamrolled by the far Left because we are not standing up to them & callimg them out on their BS.
Those that say "I have too much to loose" will not stand up to be counted and the SOS will continue to happen (staying on the couch is benign to our 2A).... It's time to stand and be counted!!!

I think we're talking about 2 separate scenarios - one, where there is a peaceful 2nd amendment rally, say at the State Capitol, vs. going to a protest where it is known, in advance, that folks like Antifa are very likely to show. As I noted above, I would gladly carry (and have done so) at rallies in Salem. I wouldn't carry at some protest in downtown PDX because I know it's going to go south and I know I'm the one that would get hosed in the process - local gov't won't protect my rights. I agree we're getting stomped on, but I'm not going to use my life to give more fuel to the anti-gun fire by showing up at what I suspect will be a violent protest by leftist thugs. That's all I'm saying - I don't want to be anywhere near those fools - let them get themselves in trouble then run home crying to mommy when they get pepper sprayed.

Now, if I went to that peaceful rally in Salem and Antifa shows up and starts some sh!t, that's a different story - they weren't expected, so it's hard to plan ahead for something like that, or to avoid it. Ever wonder why Antifa never shows up in Salem? I've never seen them - probably more TV cameras in Portland.

 

[Camelfilter]

I am not pointing this comment out to anyone in particular...
We have a rule about being excellent to each other.
Most folks on this forum are not intending their marks to be hurtful.
Please remember that much meaning can be lost in electronic communication and posts can easily be misread.
Think before you post and respond.
Andy

Yeah, I apologize for calling it out. But if it smells like a troll, and looks like a troll, and acts like a troll...

Exhibited all of the old school troll features as well, including claiming being picked on and "leaving" to try and get even more response.

If it's not a troll, it would recognize the wealth of information here, and stay, and be a contributing community member. Even some info in this thread was extremely well thought out and non-confrontational (to an extremely confrontational/controversial topic).

 

[Caveman Jim]

Yeah, I put out that scenario to light some fires (pun not intended). We cannot keep getting steamrolled without a fight, that's what will turn the tide not sitting on our azzes.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Not everyone is lucky enough to visit here regularly, the question and curiosity was perfectly valid, it's important to be thinking through ALL possible situations when carrying, even when you wouldn't put yourself there deliberately.

 

[11Charlie]

Yeah, I apologize for calling it out. But if it smells like a troll, and looks like a troll, and acts like a troll...

OOH OOH I know the answer its TROLL!!

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Hypothetical question people, doesn't matter if you would, wouldn't, should, shouldn't.

Not talking about things makes you stupider and ignorant.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Being prepared is key to living another day and setting things right for our kids & grandkids. Look beyond today to years.

 

[tkdguy]

If at a pro 2A rally & the opposition shows up then we are expected to leave? F*** THAT!!! We are getting steamrolled by the far Left because we are not standing up to them & calling them out on their BS.
Those that say "I have too much to loose" will not stand up to be counted and the SOS will continue to happen (staying on the couch is benign to our 2A).... It's time to stand and be counted!!!

The above points are well taken, but this is different from willfully going to a rally when there is advance knowledge of violence. If violent parties show up and attack non-violent 2 A persons, that is a very different story.

The response to a pro @ 2nd rally engaged in an offense attack by a violent group is a complex matter and hopefully the police would be there to quickly intervene. If not, a well reasoned level of defense response would have to be exercised. Obviously, such a circumstance can not turn this type of event into an assault by defensive parties. In question, contact an attorney on these self-defense matters.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Nevermind.....

I'm not going anywhere to look for a fight like these phukers do but they are getting out of hand & the politicians & Leo's are not making a stand on the West coast.
I'll not run from it because it's time to put up or shut up with these azzwipes.

 

[11Charlie]

Nevermind.....

Thats it? Nevermind? I thought you would have more to say than that!!

 

[Caveman Jim]

I decided not to nevermind..... go back... lol

 

[AK0perator47]

I refuse to beat the proverbial dead horse.
But I want to say that if an idiot, undereducated, ill advised, trust fund reject, pantywaisted, sissy lala, Momma's boy, and all around arse hat; is giving you grief and you respond by arguing with them to the outsider neither one person can be viewed as the smart and intelligent person. There's some old school logic!

 

[BillyJean]

I think we're talking about 2 separate scenarios - one, where there is a peaceful 2nd amendment rally, say at the State Capitol, vs. going to a protest where it is known, in advance, that folks like Antifa are very likely to show. As I noted above, I would gladly carry (and have done so) at rallies in Salem. I wouldn't carry at some protest in downtown PDX because I know it's going to go south and I know I'm the one that would get hosed in the process - local gov't won't protect my rights. I agree we're getting stomped on, but I'm not going to use my life to give more fuel to the anti-gun fire by showing up at what I suspect will be a violent protest by leftist thugs. That's all I'm saying - I don't want to be anywhere near those fools - let them get themselves in trouble then run home crying to mommy when they get pepper sprayed.

Now, if I went to that peaceful rally in Salem and Antifa shows up and starts some sh!t, that's a different story - they weren't expected, so it's hard to plan ahead for something like that, or to avoid it. Ever wonder why Antifa never shows up in Salem? I've never seen them - probably more TV cameras in Portland.

Unpopular opinion:

I understand that Antifa is the boogyman de jour in the media currently, and that lots of folks view them as being generally violent and unpredictable. I'll offer a different opionion and of course YMMV.

As their name suggests, the loose network of anti-facist activists that have recently gained visibility in mainstream media are actually pretty predictable in terms of when and where they show up. Started in the '70s/'80s in Europe, they are and have traditionally been mainly interested in keeping facists / nazis from feeling comfortable showing their faces in public. Pretty simple.

Now, sure, some/many of these folks are anarchists, libertarians, communists, and others that don't generally fit into tidy mainstream political boxes. And of course there are plenty of critical opinions about their tactics from just about everywhere on the political spectrum, including liberals, the ACLU, and so on.

Not trying to convince anyone to feel any specific way about these folks, more to point out that there really isn't much that's mysterious about them, other than the mainstream media's total obsession with them in the past few months. I'd say generally that if you're not a facist or a facist sympathizer, you should be good to go.

 

[jsparks747]

The cops pulled out because the Mayor has friends who are ANTIFA, and he's a sympathizer. How many sitting judges do you think there are that are his "friends", too?

Don't do it, listen to the advice given. Going to those things is like winning a fight with someone on the internet....

Luckily not many judges are anti-gun, at least the ones my dad knows. Went down to the duck game to meet up with some friends and one of my dad's friends who is a judge was there. His first words, "This one of the gun nuts?" We talked guns for 2 and a half hours and hunting. Great guy. I really hope the judge on the Strickland case is just a biased nutcase.

 

[Howard1955]

Unpopular opinion:

I understand that Antifa is the boogyman de jour in the media currently, and that lots of folks view them as being generally violent and unpredictable. I'll offer a different opionion and of course YMMV.

As their name suggests, the loose network of anti-facist activists that have recently gained visibility in mainstream media are actually pretty predictable in terms of when and where they show up. Started in the '70s/'80s in Europe, they are and have traditionally been mainly interested in keeping facists / nazis from feeling comfortable showing their faces in public. Pretty simple.

Now, sure, some/many of these folks are anarchists, libertarians, communists, and others that don't generally fit into tidy mainstream political boxes. And of course there are plenty of critical opinions about their tactics from just about everywhere on the political spectrum, including liberals, the ACLU, and so on.

Not trying to convince anyone to feel any specific way about these folks, more to point out that there really isn't much that's mysterious about them, other than the mainstream media's total obsession with them in the past few months. I'd say generally that if you're not a facist or a facist sympathizer, you should be good to go.

Define fascist. Do you mean President Trump? Do you mean a 16-year-old boy wearing a MAGA hat? Do you mean any white male who's proud of his culture and doesn't lke seeing it torn down?

What exactly is the definition of 'fascist' nowadays?

 

[BillyJean]

Define fascist. Do you mean President Trump? Do you mean a 16-year-old boy wearing a MAGA hat? Do you mean any white male who's proud of his culture and doesn't lke seeing it torn down?

What exactly is the definition of 'fascist' nowadays?

A good general working definition of facism is a nationalist form of authoritarianism that uses fear and violence (violence in both a systemic and individual or in situ senses of the term) to oppress disenfranchised and less powerful groups within a society.

There are many facist impulses in our country, and in our larger geopolitical landscape in the west right now. I think they are bigger than a single person, and more complicated than a 16yo kid in a MAGA hat.

And of course it depends on how much one wants to untangle the implications of white men who feel a sense of entitlement or ownership of "his" culture. Plenty of folks would read that as dog-whistle racism, regardless of the intent of the speaker. Others might say it's a point of heritage. Others still say that it's just an ignorant or decontextualized misunderstanding of American/western history.

The definition of facism doesn't change. My grandfather earned a silver star and purple heart as an Antifa during The Battle of the Buldge. If that's part of your white male culture, then, yeah, that's great. (Though I'd argue that belongs to more people than the white and male.) If you're saying you get to be proud of being white and you don't like people pointing out the ways in which landed white male culture lied and cheated, murdered and stole their way to power, and if you're saying that we as a society do not need to be honest about those facts, then I'd say you've got a lot of reading to do, and a lot of being honest about how the world works.

 

[AK0perator47]

A good general working definition of facism is a nationalist form of authoritarianism that uses fear and violence (violence in both a systemic and individual or in situ senses of the term) to oppress disenfranchised and less powerful groups within a society.

There are many facist impulses in our country, and in our larger geopolitical landscape in the west right now. I think they are bigger than a single person, and more complicated than a 16yo kid in a MAGA hat.

And of course it depends on how much one wants to untangle the implications of white men who feel a sense of entitlement or ownership of "his" culture. Plenty of folks would read that as dog-whistle racism, regardless of the intent of the speaker. Others might say it's a point of heritage. Others still say that it's just an ignorant or decontextualized misunderstanding of American/western history.

The definition of facism doesn't change. My grandfather earned a silver star and purple heart as an Antifa during The Battle of the Buldge. If that's part of your white male culture, then, yeah, that's great. (Though I'd argue that belongs to more people than the white and male.) If you're saying you get to be proud of being white and you don't like people pointing out the ways in which landed white male culture lied and cheated, murdered and stole their way to power, and if you're saying that we as a society do not need to be honest about those facts, then I'd say you've got a lot of reading to do, and a lot of being honest about how the world works.

I want to preface by saying that I don't agree with Fascist or Marxists, Leninist and the list goes on. The only thing I would like to point out is Fascism is a nationalist idea, with a social structure, and a totalitarian dictatorship. Socialism is a collective, with no social structure, government control and wait for it... wait for it....

A totalitarian dictator.
Wow. A government in charge of everything and a totalitarian dictator no matter what people choose. Sounds like garbage in and garbage out from both choices. I will just have to pass.

 

[Kruel J]

I'm not going to be as nice as @AndyinEverson here, as we all know I'm not as nice as him in the first place.

I spent some time cleaning up this thread. The OP asked a question. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't automatically make him a "troll" or otherwise. Everyone has to start somewhere at NWFA. We were ALL noobs with just a few posts under our belts at one time. Please remember to treat members here appropriately and in the spirit of NWFA.

 

[clearconscience]

Any way it goes down you will be looked at as putting yourself in a position to create violence.
Now if your leaving work and get attacked then your within your right to defend yourself using a firearm in a mob attack.

Either way the liberal politicians here and the liberal media will paint you as the bad guy.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Unpopular opinion:

I understand that Antifa is the boogyman de jour in the media currently, and that lots of folks view them as being generally violent and unpredictable. I'll offer a different opionion and of course YMMV.

As their name suggests, the loose network of anti-facist activists that have recently gained visibility in mainstream media are actually pretty predictable in terms of when and where they show up. Started in the '70s/'80s in Europe, they are and have traditionally been mainly interested in keeping facists / nazis from feeling comfortable showing their faces in public. Pretty simple.

Now, sure, some/many of these folks are anarchists, libertarians, communists, and others that don't generally fit into tidy mainstream political boxes. And of course there are plenty of critical opinions about their tactics from just about everywhere on the political spectrum, including liberals, the ACLU, and so on.

Not trying to convince anyone to feel any specific way about these folks, more to point out that there really isn't much that's mysterious about them, other than the mainstream media's total obsession with them in the past few months. I'd say generally that if you're not a facist or a facist sympathizer, you should be good to go.

Having met and knowing several antifa members...

They are unpredictable and simply, racists. I work with a long-time member. I am white and proud of my heritage. Sharecroppers who were dirt poor, fought and bled for this country. They were long term allies of the Cherokee nation, though they did not intermarry. We are a tough people that rely on our wits. We are of Irish descent in an area where that was viewed as a negative. My dad remembers the "No Irish need apply" signs.

I noticed that you wouldn't decry violence towards a kid for his hat and a simple dose of patriotism fits your ideas of fascism. And I am uncomfortable with any group who tries to suppress the first amendment as you suggest that they do.

I am opposed to racism, but I believe the way to beat it is by letting fools speak and show themselves idiots. Remove the mystique. There are very few white supremacists out their at all. They have no cogent arguments.