seeking SemiAuto 308 advice

[jdub75]

Hey all,

I've been eyeing adding a SEMI Auto .308 to the mix as a heavy hitting compliment to my 5.56. I REALLY like the handling of a short, compact bullpup rifle, like the Kel Tec RFB. However, I realize the likelyhood of finding one, and at a reasonable price is not that great, not to mention it is unproven at this point.

So that has led me to look at FAL's & AR10 variants, & possibly SBR'ing it or getting the 16" version for weight & handling. By getting the 16" or 12" at shortest, am I severly sacrificing the ballistic advantages of the 308 round??
FWIW, I am not too concerned w/ accuracy at over 200 yards.

Thanks everyone!

Jdub

Read More

 

[2506]

A 20" barrel offers complete powder burn. Some articles I've read show only a decrease of 32 fps between 26" and 18" inch barrels. 16" is something I've not read about.

 

[shakazulu12]

Well, there is video of a guy making an 1100 yard shot with a Larue OBR (or OSR I forget what the final name is) with a 16" barrel. Another one made a hit at 1 mile with the same rifle. Me thinks at 200 and under you pretty much have nothing to worry about other than muzzle flash. At that range the velocity loss is not going to severely inhibit your shooting.

 

[unionguy]

I've read a lot about FAL's...I wouldn't go below 18". You get considerably more muzzle flash and noise iwth a 16" and reduced energy. .223 is good out to 300...one reason to have a .308 is you can get out to 600-800 yards...so I wouldn't go too short.

 

[Silver Fox]

Those wacky war-mongering Belgiums at FN discovered years ago that with the 7.62 NATO (.308) you do not want to go shorter that 17.3" hence the original Para FALs were 17.3 barrels for a reason.

SF-

 

[jdub75]

Those wacky war-mongering Belgiums at FN discovered years ago that with the 7.62 NATO (.308) you do not want to go shorter that 17.3" hence the original Para FALs were 17.3 barrels for a reason.

SF-[/QUOTE

Belgians! Can't trust em'...something about a people living perpetually below sea level is inherently suspect.

Seriously, thats good to know SF, thanx for sharing!

 

[mpmarty]

RING RING (that's my BS meter going off).
My 16" Saiga AK consistently out-shoots my 26" Savage in 7.62X51 with 1986 Lake City National Match ammo at 400 yards. The 150gr projectiles chrono out at 2860 from that 16" tube and only 2845 from the ten inch longer Savage. Go figure!

 

[spider]

The bullpup kel-tec rfb, for all the polymer and plastic that you feel, it is a damn heavy gun, but since its a bullpup I can see how fun it would be to breach a house with it or walk around in hallways but still its heavy and you can't get one for under $2800 for a rifle thats suppose to only be $1200, I would suggest waiting at least another 18 months so its out of "allocated" to buy one. the ar-10, fal both feel like an over sized ar-15 and the 20"+ long barrel on the m1a is accurate as heck but has a barrel the size of a sniper rifle. If you're into a .308 really look into any of the 18" barrel version of the m1a or an ar10 you won't be sorry.
Thumbs down on the ak .308 something about the action is to loud for my taste.

 

[huntpotter]

I had my new favorite FAL, cut down from 21" to 18.5". Threaded 9/16-24 LH. It is a perfect weight and ballance, and not excessive muzzle flash. I had to open up the gas hole on the barrel a couple thousandths to get enough gas impulse to cycle.

The FAL I had before that was cut to 16" was really loud, and not as accurate, even though it was a custom build with a belgian barrel.

I've had em all before............... I'll keep going back to the FAL, as the best .308 battle rifle.

 

[Silver Fox]

RING RING (that's my BS meter going off).
My 16" Saiga AK consistently out-shoots my 26" Savage in 7.62X51 with 1986 Lake City National Match ammo at 400 yards. The 150gr projectiles chrono out at 2860 from that 16" tube and only 2845 from the ten inch longer Savage. Go figure!

The powder burns out at about 22" where as the that 150grn bullet is Slowing down in that last 4". That 16" is barrel is zipping that bullet out at your 2860, but I would wager we take your same ammo and crank it out of my Argetine para with the 17.3" barrel it would be a bit faster. Then if compare that to a 22" barrel it will be real close.

That long barrel myth has engrained itself into our shooting culture. Ever notice how the F class guys like there barrels short and fat?

SF-

 

[jdub75]

Some really good discussion going; thanks to everyone so far!

 

[tac]

Belgians! Can't trust em'...something about a people living perpetually below sea level is inherently suspect.

Seriously, thats good to know SF, thanx for sharing!

Sir - you are mistaking the Belgians for the Dutch. Much of Belgium, especially the Ardennes, is pretty much like hillside PA.

tac, who lived there.

 

[jdub75]

Doh'
I have even been there twice & flubbed that one. I'll keep my lame jokes for the wife

 

[jdub75]

Anyone have experience w/ M1/M14's? Got to look at one the other nite-seems quite a bit more substantially made than the FAL's I have encountered. Would finding parts be easier on the M1's as well?

 

[Beagle]

i've had both the m1a and fal's more than i care to imagine. i still go back to a fal. parts are cheaper for sure and there are a lot of custom things you can do to a fal and that is cheaper. go check out what a good smith charges to work on a m1a it's scary. the m1a is also very heavy compared to a fal or ar10.
the recoil to me is a tad but more on the m1a than either of the other 2.it comes down to what you prefer.the fal i have now is a dsa sa58 carbine with the 18in barrel and the belgian flashider. it works great and seems to get smoother everytime i shoot it. go to dsa website and you can check on part prices.i managed to pick up a complete belgian bolt, the guy didn't know what he had for 50.00 and a spring kit for every part on a fal for 45.00 from another guy. scope mounts for a m1a can run 250 and up for a good one.
anyway you can see what i likel to lol.

the ar10 are good guns also along with the noveske n6 or the knights sr25
all of these can run vey high in price. mags are not that bad right now from armalite or 44mag.com the other one you might consider is the dpms the newest ones shoot really well and they have got them dialed in.
hope this doesn't confuse you more i'm rambling on but some of it should help.

 

[jdub75]

Beagle, not confusing at all. I know what you're saying on the M1 parts being expensive. In your experience, FAL parts are easy to come by then? I am thinking long term, ie, a new ban gets enacted & no more goodies (or the parts thereof) get made/imported, would FAL be a good choice?
I have looked at the 308 ar variants, and the lack of a standard format (other than mags on a few brands) scares me for the above reasons. I'd hate to commit to a KAC or DMPS & see the company go belly up, and there goes my parts source, ya know?
Now look...I'm rambling on like you!
Thanks for the advice!
Jdub.

 

[BSV]

Just bought one of the first Winchester (FN) SX-AR-308 from Keiths a few weeks ago. $999. Shoots factory or Mil-surp excellent. Full camo in an FN-AR configuration. 20" bull barrel with solid stock and pistol grip. Very happy with it. Really seems to like South African 7.62 ammo.

BSV

 

[Beagle]

Beagle, not confusing at all. I know what you're saying on the M1 parts being expensive. In your experience, FAL parts are easy to come by then? I am thinking long term, ie, a new ban gets enacted & no more goodies (or the parts thereof) get made/imported, would FAL be a good choice?
I have looked at the 308 ar variants, and the lack of a standard format (other than mags on a few brands) scares me for the above reasons. I'd hate to commit to a KAC or DMPS & see the company go belly up, and there goes my parts source, ya know?
Now look...I'm rambling on like you!
Thanks for the advice!
Jdub.

Hi jdub i have all the parts i will ever need for my fal including a extra barrel
i think the fal is the way to go.the fal is so smooth to shoot with medium recoil parts can be had by many different sources. i have used dsa,sog,and a couple others. mags for the metric fal can be had for less than 20.00 i picked up a bunch of belgian mags for 15.00 ea so would i buy a fal again? in the blink of a eye lol. check out dsa website for ideas.if you want to have one built there are a ton of good fal builders out there. just keep your eyes out for the extras you want and pick them up here and there.
hope that helps.

 

[jdub75]

Cool thanks Beagle. I have been to DSA's site. Have you seen VLTOR's new CASV for the FAL series? VERY nice setup.

 

[jdub75]

Just bought one of the first Winchester (FN) SX-AR-308 from Keiths a few weeks ago. $999. Shoots factory or Mil-surp excellent. Full camo in an FN-AR configuration. 20" bull barrel with solid stock and pistol grip. Very happy with it. Really seems to like South African 7.62 ammo.

BSV

I saw one of those a few weeks back at a show. Seems pretty nice, but I only worry about aftermarket support if it never catches on. Decent price tho for a top tier name.