Seeking advice on my first semiauto shotgun

[Ura-Ki]

Remington 11/87 hand down! Mossy with its known issues, and the M-4 with it's deadly design fault's NO THANK YOU! Beretta if you just like spending money, or you just have to have an Italian!

Just so you know, I DO know of what I speak, we were issued M-4's and out of the lot of them, 5 detonated shells on the loading gate when feeding, one blew a pretty good sized chunk off our Senior Chiefs right hand, damn near cost him his thumb! You wanna bet on that kinda performance, your choice!

 

[nammac]

Remington 11/87 hand down! Mossy with its known issues, and the M-4 with it's deadly design fault's NO THANK YOU! Beretta if you just like spending money, or you just have to have an Italian!

Just so you know, I DO know of what I speak, we were issued M-4's and out of the lot of them, 5 detonated shells on the loading gate when feeding, one blew a pretty good sized chunk off our Senior Chiefs right hand, damn near cost him his thumb! You wanna bet on that kinda performance, your choice!

Another vote for the Remington 11/87, it's been around long enough the bugs are worked out. Goes bang every time. Just a nice smooth gas operated shotgun. I had a nice field specimen was purchased for trap shooting, but got bit by the o/u bug. Still regret selling it, it was my very first shotgun.

 

[Ura-Ki]

It I was going to carry and use a semi auto, it would be ether a Remmy 11/87 or Winny SX-3, or, if Benelli made the Vencie into a fighting gun! For the classic, a Browning A-5!
Pro tip, with the 11/87, change the gas 0-rings out for silicone ones and never have to futz about with it ever again, absolutely bomb proof!

 

[titsonritz]

I use to have a Rem 11/87 police model, I thought it sucked and got rid of it. I really down like the loading gate button. Love my 1301 though. I not really a fan of box mag fed shotguns like the Saiga or 870/590 pumps, to me they just feel awkward and off balance, there is also the increased chance of malfunction due to deform shells from sitting in the mag pressing on the feed-lips.

 

[huzar]

If you want a semi-auto shotgun for tactical use, you can do a lot worse than the Langdon Tactical Beretta 1301. Most of what I see people running in shotgun classes are those if they are running a semi-auto. The Rob Haught class I took recently had eight 1301's and 11 Remington 870, which should tell you a little about the 1301's popularity. As great as the M4 (or M1014) is, and I own one and love it dearly, they don't see the adoption for some reason or another.

Or, consider the newly released Mossberg 940 Tactical -- the 930 was a damn fine shotgun, and Mossberg improved on it with the 940.

 

[Stomper]

Uh-OH….. lookit what JUST literally dropped….. gotta hide muh wallet!

 

[Stomper]

IMO a tube fed gun is very slow to reload compared to a high capacity mag-fed gun. Lets say you have 5+1 shots in a tube fed gun and you fire those until empty (which can happen fast), then you are down to a single shot gun if you do single reload and fire, or a 3 shot gun per reload if you are extremely skilled. So compare the times for a high capacity magazine fed shotgun vs tube fed:

1) In the video above the Saiga shoots 20 rounds in 3.3 seconds (reposted at bottom here fYI)

2) 20 shots with tube-fed for one of the fastest shooters in the world takes 13 seconds reloading time plus whatever shooting time: (2.6 seconds to load 3 shells, 20 shots would require 5 reloads, 5 * 2.6 = 13 seconds + shooting time)

3-shell reload by national champion:

tube fed.avi

• ilikegunspdx
• Mar 20, 2022

View attachment 1158858

3) 20 shots by a trained shooter using 1 shot and fire technique would take 20.58 seconds plus shooting time: (1.47 seconds per shell, 14 reloads * 1.47 sec = 20.58 seconds + shooting time)

VideoCompressor_20220320090630165.mp4

• ilikegunspdx
• Mar 20, 2022

View attachment 1158859

Compare to high capacity mag-fed (3.3 seconds total)

Siaga drum.mov

• ilikegunspdx
• Feb 14, 2022

View attachment 1158857

It I was going to carry and use a semi auto, it would be ether a Remmy 11/87 or Winny SX-3, or, if Benelli made the Vencie into a fighting gun! For the classic, a Browning A-5!
Pro tip, with the 11/87, change the gas 0-rings out for silicone ones and never have to futz about with it ever again, absolutely bomb proof!

 

[huzar]

All this harping about how shotguns are slow to reload... what sort of problems are folks expecting to encounter that would not be solved by six rounds of buckshot? If you need 20 rounds of buck to deal with your situation, you don't need more mag capacity, you need backup.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

All this harping about how shotguns are slow to reload... what sort of problems are folks expecting to encounter that would not be solved by six rounds of buckshot? If you need 20 rounds of buck to deal with your situation, you don't need more mag capacity, you need backup.

Crims nowadays use high capacity guns. We had a shooting 2 blocks from my house a few months back, 27 rounds recovered. Sometimes more than 100 rounds are recovered at local shootings. Sometimes local shootings have 3 or 4 armed crims in the car.

As Clint smith says, the shells run out really fast, and imo limited capacity is one of the biggest drawbacks of shotguns. Why not minimize this limiting factor?

For me the ideal is to have 1 large capacity mag with regular SD loads (whatever that is for an individual's preferences).

Also have another mag on your person partially loaded with less than lethal that you can choose if it's not a deadly threat but perp will not stop (or other situation where less than lethal is preferred). Lethal loads in bottom half(ish) of mag.

Also another mag on your person with "the nuclear option" ha ha. Fe armor piercing slugs or even explosive slugs (HESH). We don't know when we have to shoot through a barrier, body armor target, etc. I use different texture and color identifiers so even in the dark you know what mag to choose (if you need to choose).

This takes advantage of a shotgun's strengths (it's versatility) and minimizes its weaknesses (low capacity and slow to reload).

I have seen cases where cops use up the shotguns ammo and end up throwing it on the ground.

Fe skip to the 4:40 mark here:

And the 40:20 mark here (re-enactment of Miami dade):

Also at the 17:50 mark here (newhall incident)

I want every advantage I can have in a gunfight in today's world of unknown threats. So why not have larger capacity in case it's needed. No one ever complained about having left over ammo/not having to reload, but they do about running out of ammo.

My personal preference is high capacity, mag fed, fast firing, low recoil if possible, good ergos if possible, and of course reliability is a pass/fail, if it's not reliable it can only be a range gun. Ability to accept red dot and folding stock for storage wherever is also desirable for me.

 

[Stomper]

All this harping about how shotguns are slow to reload... what sort of problems are folks expecting to encounter that would not be solved by six rounds of buckshot? If you need 20 rounds of buck to deal with your situation, you don't need more mag capacity, you need backup.

Mine holds nine rounds (ghost loaded), thank YOU!

 

[titsonritz]

All this harping about how shotguns are slow to reload... what sort of problems are folks expecting to encounter that would not be solved by six rounds of buckshot? If you need 20 rounds of buck to deal with your situation, you don't need more mag capacity, you need backup.

May as well have ten round limit on AR mags too huh? Right, no honest man needs more than 10 rounds. You think those deer are wearing Kevlar or something? Hell according Brandon 2 rounds is enough.

"Man, I sure wish I had fewer rounds in that gunfight" - said no one ever.

 

[GWS]

Crims nowadays use high capacity guns. We had a shooting 2 blocks from my house a few months back, 27 rounds recovered. Sometimes more than 100 rounds are recovered at local shootings. Sometimes local shootings have 3 or 4 armed crims in the car.

As Clint smith says, the shells run out really fast, and imo limited capacity is one of the biggest drawbacks of shotguns. Why not minimize this limiting factor?

For me the ideal is to have 1 large capacity mag with regular SD loads (whatever that is for an individual's preferences).

Also have another mag on your person partially loaded with less than lethal that you can choose if it's not a deadly threat but perp will not stop (or other situation where less than lethal is preferred). Lethal loads in bottom half(ish) of mag.

Also another mag on your person with "the nuclear option" ha ha. Fe armor piercing slugs or even explosive slugs (HESH). We don't know when we have to shoot through a barrier, body armor target, etc. I use different texture and color identifiers so even in the dark you know what mag to choose (if you need to choose).

This takes advantage of a shotgun's strengths (it's versatility) and minimizes its weaknesses (low capacity and slow to reload).

I have seen cases where cops use up the shotguns ammo and end up throwing it on the ground.

Fe skip to the 4:40 mark here:

And the 40:20 mark here (re-enactment of Miami dade):

Also at the 17:50 mark here (newhall incident)

I want every advantage I can have in a gunfight in today's world of unknown threats. So why not have larger capacity in case it's needed. No one ever complained about having left over ammo/not having to reload, but they do about running out of ammo.

My personal preference is high capacity, mag fed, fast firing, low recoil if possible, good ergos if possible, and of course reliability is a pass/fail, if it's not reliable it can only be a range gun. Ability to accept red dot and folding stock for storage wherever is also desirable for me.

I'd like to see what your carry rig looks like with all those magazines.
Anyway, If that setup works for you then go with it.
Gun choices are a diversity I can celebrate

 

[eightyeight mag]

FN slp.
Yes please

 

[huzar]

Mine holds nine rounds (ghost loaded), thank YOU!

Now that they've banned 'ghost' guns, they'll ban ghost loading next. Mark my words.

 

[titsonritz]

Uh-OH….. lookit what JUST literally dropped….. gotta hide muh wallet!

I've got to admit the Mossberg safety location is the best of any shotgun I've handled. If I didn't already own an 870 and 1301, I'd seriously consider a different route with a 590A1 and this new 940.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

KSG-12

 

[titsonritz]

KSG-12

But the thread is entitled...

"Seeking advice on my first semiauto shotgun"

 

[huzar]

KSG-12

If anything, you'd want to recommend the Tavor TS-12 rather than the KSG-12, since this is a semi-automatic shotgun thread.

 

[huzar]

Also have another mag on your person partially loaded with less than lethal that you can choose if it's not a deadly threat but perp will not stop (or other situation where less than lethal is preferred). Lethal loads in bottom half(ish) of mag.

I can appreciate your desire to stop a fight w/o ending a life when you talk about having less than lethal options for a shotgun... but, as a civilian (and I'm assuming you are one just like I am), every time I point a gun at a person, it is already deadly force... so, loading my shotgun with bird shot, or rock salt, or whatever, is just not a thing for me. My home defense shotgun is loaded with 00-buck, and if I need to resort to that, then as best as I can articulate to the prosecutor afterwards, the non-lethal train has already departed the station.

I get training in and practice non-lethal striking and grappling, the use of OC spray, verbal judo, and a bunch of other things, but if firearms come out, it's because the attacker has escalated to the point where all of my options between a harsh word and a gun are exhausted, and all I'm left with is the gun.

 

[Alexx1401]

Uh-OH….. lookit what JUST literally dropped….. gotta hide muh wallet!

Damn after watching that I was quite impressed. My wallet ran and hid.