Seattle restaurant incident: What would YOU do?

[gimpy51]

Funny. I must admit I am entertained.

Normal citizens don't scare me. But people ready and willing to kill, even when a direct and immediate threat is not present, are also ready to get another round of education through the courts. Don't get me wrong, I would if I had to, but I am not willing to give up my life and the future of my family to prove what a tough guy I am. As long as I return home to my family, I will have no remorse. I don't now and never have carried to protect others. That is what we hire cops for. You go ahead and be Rambo. Just know, Rambo doesn't look so threatening in court or when he has to figure out how and where to live because he lost everything.

I would do anything I could to help a cop, but the public is a different story. Both me and my wife carry. We will do everything possible to return home to each other and have no desire to be the "hero."

You are starting to sound more like a few of the cops in the news lately. Drive up next to a young child with a toy gun and shoot them within 3 seconds of arriving and claiming the kid with the toy was a threat. Because of the officer's professional training. Then the difference becomes obvious. That cop has a full department, Prosecutors, Review Boards and courts all to protect them. Do you really think all those resources will come to your defense?

Going home and sleeping with a hot wife means a lot to me. I'm not willing to give her up so I can sleep with a bunch of guys in prison. To each their own.

All the training in the world can't teach proper judgement. A mindset of survival will do more for your safety than a Rambo complex. You are obviously ready to kill. Good luck.

 

[Mor4us]

Wow. There are soo many available self defense items in a restaurant (equal+ to a piece of glass). If nothing else, one of the guys could have busted a chair over this loser's head. A guy with a big unwieldy piece of glass? Seriously? Not real scary. I'd feel much safer with a chair in my hands than a piece of glass.

I wouldn't have shot him, unless I was just in a bad mood.

Most folks nowadays would much rather run than attempt to stop a threat. It's part of the pussification of America.

Want to get serious about defense? Now there are many times in life that pulling out a gun and blasting a perp is not the best solution, because when and if you ever do you better have at least $100,000 dollars for defense to stay out of prison and another 3 and a half million for the grieving relatives that the lawyers find to sue you.

Before you start training with a gun, it is way wiser to train here:

 

[gimpy51]

That is an option for many.

However, 65yo, 2x replaced knees, 2x shoulder surgeries to each shoulder, and no where near as strong as I once was, I wish this was still an option for me.

Heck, just to be that age again would be nice. Smile

 

[Mor4us]

That is an option for many.

However, 65yo, 2x replaced knees, 2x shoulder surgeries to each shoulder, and no where near as strong as I once was, I wish this was still an option for me.

Heck, just to be that age again would be nice. Smile

o, well then your case calls for a backup plan:

 

[mjbskwim]

Coastrange,the theme here for folks not willing to help others is that the orhers aren't ready or willing to defend themselves,why should a person do it just cause they were smart enough to carry?
I would want to walk out and get away but I have a problem thinking I need to be involved.
I don't judge others who think it best for their families to walk away. That's their choice and they have to live with it.
Maybe they should talk with their loved ones about it? Does your wife think it better to walk away or help those who won't help themselves?
Even a older person can find a gun to carry and get a carry permit

 

[gimpy51]

o, well then your case calls for a backup plan:
View attachment 290421

I know all about things like that. Do you have any idea what that cost? I was in my wheelchair for 15yrs. I bought my chair out of my pocket. I also bought a very capable chair. But the $40,000 price tag was steep. But the ability to go up and down curbs, over rough off-road terrain has a draw to anyone limited in ambulation.

 

[gimpy51]

I don't judge others who think it best for their families to walk away. That's their choice and they have to live with it.
Maybe they should talk with their loved ones about it? Does your wife think it better to walk away or help those who won't help themselves?

I am the first one to stop and help someone in need under normal circumstances. I've had more than one accident victim to die in my arms. However, I do not volunteer to kill others for someone else. I'm not military or LE.

Second, talk to my wife for an opinion? Really? Others make your decisions for you? I waited almost 25 years to find my wife. There are just somethings that are just simply my choice. Do I really care if she feels I should get involved and possibly die? It's easy for someone not in that danger zone. I would not be discussing our options in that case. If I have to, I'll be dragging her out.

The idea that I would take a survey of my wife or anyone else on the subject is ridiculous. We recently had an event in Oregon. The guy with the guns choose to engage. He died. He left a huge family behind. We can ague for years over whether it was worth it. But let's wait until all the dust settles and then we'll see the full impact.

Then again, a Mall Shooting in Oregon a couple years ago. One lone CC person was the cause of the stop to the threat. He didn't even fire a shot and the suspect was dead. That was a case where a CC made a real difference and the CC holder didn't have any legal problems to deal with. He returned home to his family.There are far more options than pulling the trigger. Hopefully, that is always the last choice.

If the guy is standing in front of me and I or we are about to be violated, the person is going to drop in his tracks. Knowing that I had no real choice in the matter, I'm going to have to suffer the at the hands of the court. But unless you are a lawyer, I'm betting I've seen and/or been involved in more legal actions and probably have a clearer idea of exactly what will happen in court.

 

[CoastRange57]

Coastrange,the theme here for folks not willing to help others is that the orhers aren't ready or willing to defend themselves,why should a person do it just cause they were smart enough to carry?
I would want to walk out and get away but I have a problem thinking I need to be involved.
I don't judge others who think it best for their families to walk away. That's their choice and they have to live with it.
Maybe they should talk with their loved ones about it? Does your wife think it better to walk away or help those who won't help themselves?
Even a older person can find a gun to carry and get a carry permit

I completely get that. I will be the first to the door if I can, and I am not going to actively engage unless that perp is heading at me. These situations occur in a contained area in a matter of seconds. Hesitation may be good or deadly.

I have been in one situation where I had to draw and was within seconds of using deadly force against an armed felon who a few seconds later shot up a business and was charged with attempted murder. I did not sleep for two days and dealt with that for a long time, but my decision remained unchanged.

 

[x2ndxall]

Have you guys watched the video? By reading the posts in this thread I get the feeling not many did.

 

[bbbass]

Before you start training with a gun, it is way wiser to train here:

Disagree. You may choose what is wise for yourself. But IMO results will be had quicker and for less $$ investment with firearms training, which will work for a broader spectrum of people.

 

[wired]

Coastrange,the theme here for folks not willing to help others is that the orhers aren't ready or willing to defend themselves,why should a person do it just cause they were smart enough to carry?
I would want to walk out and get away but I have a problem thinking I need to be involved.
I don't judge others who think it best for their families to walk away. That's their choice and they have to live with it.
Maybe they should talk with their loved ones about it? Does your wife think it better to walk away or help those who won't help themselves?
Even a older person can find a gun to carry and get a carry permit

Have to live with it? I don't take the weight of the world home with me. I am concerned with my families welfare. Thats it. I carry a gun sometimes when I go into crappy areas in case I need to shoot someone who is threatening ME and preventing ME from going home to my family and preventing ME from providing for my family. I could give two sh!ts what happens to anyone else. Living with my actions is something I do every day. I'm not going to start trying to be someone else's guardian angel and start increasing the likelihood that I will not return to my family at the end of the day. If I duck out the back door while bullets are flying at the unarmed in the front door and make it home to my family in one piece I have done my duty and will sleep just fine that night and every night after.

 

[CoastRange57]

Before you start training with a gun, it is way wiser to train here:

OK. Because 59 year old guys with artificial knees, compromised / modified internal organs are going to lay the smack down on some dude going bare hands on.

I am not going to kick anybodys azz and my days of scrapping went away a long time ago, but nobody is going to kick my azz either. My smart mouth and ability to leave situations will deal me just fine.

 

[wired]

 

[mjbskwim]

Well I ll go back what I have said before about the bad guy.
*IF* you think k you want to be all Base Ruten on some one and have just started training,go get 'em. But remember,the guy you're going after may have trainer since he was a kid. Maybe LOTS of training before falling on bad times. Maybe a returned vet who's killed folks and don't care right now?
Yeah scrapping with the unknown can be a bad deal.
If it has to happen, that's one thing . Engaging someone you could walk away from while pointing a gun at then is another.
And if you don't care about your wife's opinion and y'all don't talk to her about these kind of things,good luck with your marriage

 

[gimpy51]

I completely get that. I will be the first to the door if I can, and I am not going to actively engage unless that perp is heading at me. These situations occur in a contained area in a matter of seconds. Hesitation may be good or deadly.

I have been in one situation where I had to draw and was within seconds of using deadly force against an armed felon who a few seconds later shot up a business and was charged with attempted murder. I did not sleep for two days and dealt with that for a long time, but my decision remained unchanged.

Hesitation is good, but getting your hand on your weapon immediately as you react in all the other ways is always preferable. Don't let them get close enough to use their shard. If they ain't that close, then the door is where I'm heading.

Yet you slept at home and never took out your wallet to pay your attorney. I totally understand the remorse. But it has to be taken for what it is. Sorry the other people died, they didn't deserve it, but happy I got to go home to my family.

I never want to see anyone die that way, but still happy it wasn't me or mine.

 

[gimpy51]

Have you guys watched the video? By reading the posts in this thread I get the feeling not many did.

Because of your post, I went back to page one, then two, then gave up. I found video nor a link. So you're right, I didn't watch it.

 

[gimpy51]

?And if you don't care about your wife's opinion and y'all don't talk to her about these kind of things,good luck with your marriage

Huh? You're gonna let your wife decide what is best for you in such a situation? Good luck with your marriage. I do trust and respect my wife. But no one, and I mean no one tells me when I should take a life.

My wife, no matter what she says in the hypothetical, IS going to be happy I returned home and will not fault me for killing someone when I didn't have a choice. Remember, my wife is far more likely to be angry with me and possibly divorce me because I made a bad choice and she and I both are going to go through a multi-year trial and/or legal issues. Not even including being sued by the surviving family members. Do you want to bet whether it might become "it was your choice, not mine," as you both lose everything. I'm betting she ain't gonna take the blame for what you did in the end.

We shouldn't be planning on killing. We should be learning and practicing to react as fast as possible and let the situation dictate your endgame. In a matter of speaking, hitting your target is the easier part. Knowing when it is your last choice that is the hard part.

 

[x2ndxall]

Because of your post, I went back to page one, then two, then gave up. I found video nor a link. So you're right, I didn't watch it.

Well....this thread was started in reference to an article with video. Check the very first post. Or not. Your call, but knowing what we're talking about helps us respond in a more intelligent manner.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Well....this thread was started in reference to an article with video. Check the very first post. Or not. Your call, but knowing what we're talking about helps us respond in a more intelligent manner.

Sorry brother, No video was found! Could you provide a link? All I found was the OP link to the story but no video along with it!

 

[CoastRange57]

Hesitation is good, but getting your hand on your weapon immediately as you react in all the other ways is always preferable. Don't let them get close enough to use their shard. If they ain't that close, then the door is where I'm heading.

Yet you slept at home and never took out your wallet to pay your attorney. I totally understand the remorse. But it has to be taken for what it is. Sorry the other people died, they didn't deserve it, but happy I got to go home to my family.

I never want to see anyone die that way, but still happy it wasn't me or mine.

Our outlooks are very similar. You obviously have a high level of training. I do as well. I completely agree with your first paragraph statements. We have talked about this very thing on here a lot of times. You simply do not go get a CCW, strap it on and are properly trained, although that is what a lot of people do.

I have been a CCW for over 20 years, and more before that. I have LEO and military level training in fire arms, use of force, force projection, situational analysis, threat assessment and a host of other relevant skills. I do at least 3 times a year engagement scenarios at a local business, with former Ranger instructors, but as I age, this is getting less.

As for the remorse, since I did not engage, but it was a clear lesson in what happens to your body and mind in a life or death situation. I am very thankful I had that level of training, because it allowed me to handle that situation the best has possible. I have been in thousands of emergency situations in fire and ems service, but those are nothing compared to facing a person with a gun intent to use it.