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I attended the <broken link removed> hearing this morning and here is what I found out.

Periodically the Sunshine committee reviews some 400 exemptions to the Public Disclosure Act.

The question of whether CPL's should continue to be exempt was introduced by....wait for it.... Seattle City Attorney Peter Holmes. (Who is up for election) And obviously the City of Seattle has been at war with law abiding gun owners. (Parks Ban, Preemption) Holmes introduced this review on the following two premises:

1) Is there a public interest in the exempt information that outweighs any interest in non-disclosure?

2) If the Committee were to recommend any repeal of this exemption, should the exemption remain in place for certain individuals who have concealed pistol lecense, and who are also participants in the Address Confidentiality Program, established by RCW Chapter 40.24 (available to victims of domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking)?
Committee member, Ramsey Ramerman (Assistant City Attorney, City of Everett) pointed out that the law exempts the "application" for concealed pistols but not the license itself.

RCW 42.56.240

Investigative, law enforcement, and crime victims.
The following investigative, law enforcement, and crime victim information is exempt from public inspection and copying under this chapter:

(4) License applications under RCW 9.41.070; copies of license applications or information on the applications may be released to law enforcement or corrections agencies;

Therefore, it is alleged that some jurisdictions have been interpreting this to only include the application.

Bruce Tanaka (DOL, firearms division) was there to express that while there have been discussion and requests for release of CPL information, it is the DOL's stance that it is protected. That interpretation seemed to be the same for Committee member Timothy Ford (Assistant Attorney General). However, most everyone on the committee did see that there could be an alternative interpretation (by those on the anti side) that the license itself is not protected from PDR. Please note that no one at the hearing had any evidence of such requests. Senator Roach was in attendance and asked flat out for any written requests or examples of exposure of CPL's.

I would agree that by the plain language of the text of the law that "license's" appear not to be protected, further examination imply's that the legislature intended for both to be protected from public disclosure. I noted in my testimony that both the Senate and the House voted unanimously for this protection and surely they did not intend for their to be a loophole to expose CPL holders to public scrutiny. Everyone on the Committee seemed to agree. In addition, I was questioned and others seemed to agree, that perhaps a fix of the language would strengthen the language to additionally protect CPL holders.

After the hearing on CPL's I was approached by the Chair, Michael E. Schwab, if I wanted to be contacted if this subject was to be discussed in the future. I gave him my information and will be involved. He was sympathetic to CPL information being made public and even pulled out his wallet to show me that he has a CPL.

The following is the testimony I provided:

Nick Smith, Tacoma ~ Statement against, March 2013

The purpose of the Public Records Act is to scrutinize the government, not the public. The PBA is to keep an open, transparent and honest government. The PBA is to root out government fraud and waste, to expose wrongdoing by government agencies and government employees.

PREAMBLE
We, the people of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this constitution.
ARTICLE I
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
SECTION 1 POLITICAL POWER. All political power is inherent in the people, and governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and are established to protect and maintain individual rights.

Rights as stated in Article I Section 1 seem to be under assault, whereas it is the behavior of government actions that require scrutiny.

Our state is a shall issue state, meaning that it meets strong constitutional rights requirements thus ZERO subjective input is needed for issuance of a concealed pistol license. If we compare that to religion it would be like saying we would need government employees determining whether I could attend bible study. Nonsense.

Furthermore, I personally know deputies in the state of Washington who have CPL's. I have worked in a firearms store and personally witnessed police officers who have CPL's. Why? The reason is that in order to buy a pistol AND bypass the 5 day waiting period, you must possess a valid CPL. Do we want to have officer's personal information exposed? (read 9.41.070) Of course not! And the citizens expect the same protections as civilian law enforcement. Neither do we want to see a new exemption for law enforcement that they deserve some special privilege in their handgun purchases. Noted: WASPC does not have a position on this item.

Certainly with the information from 9.41.070 mentioned above, identity theft must be a strong consideration. We know that the instant this information comes available it will be permanently ingrained in the internet, yet provides no compelling argument for its release.

Furthermore, why would the government desire to release the information of where a highly sought after piece of personal property be kept? Releasing the addresses of gun owners is just a road map to theft.

And finally not the vote for the passage of SHB 6148, it was unanimous! (96-0, 44-0). 1988 provided a fairly non toxic year for firearms rights. Any change in this law would certainly be considered only one thing, an attack on a political class.
 
Awesome. I would love to see more strengthening of our rights in response to all the nonsense being bandied about.

Yes, while it is assumed that the law pertains to both the applications AND the license and the DOL interprets it as such. Simply adding two words: "and license" to the current law would eliminate any misinterpretation.
 
Based on the video currently the Washington CPL has ambiguity between the application and licence its self? That is kind of screwy. So what, you could get the list of permits but not the applications or some such nonsense?

Wow, talk about loony tunes.

Now they want to make it all public? Really? Arg. I'm not sure who the woman in the video was but she was kind of spot on... Why are they discussing this at all? :)
 
(4) License applications under RCW 9.41.070; copies of license applications or information on the applications may be released to law enforcement or corrections agencies;

The current law seems right and clear. The INFORMATION (name, address, etc...) on the application (or license) MAY be released to LAW ENFORCEMENT.

So the information that you give them may NOT be released to the public, only to law enforcement.

IF we are forced to apply for CPL CHL, then the information should not become public. [I personally disagree that we should have to get permits to carry concealed, but that is a different argument.]
 
Nice going, Nick!


Roach rips possible erosion of state gun owner privacy

Republican State Senator Pam Roach furiously ripped what she sees as an attempt to expose Washington State gun owners to privacy invasions during a meeting Tuesday of the Public Record Exemptions Accountability Committee, also known as the “Sunshine Committee.”

<broken link removed>
 
Nick

I agree that the language you highlight is key &#8211; if the permit were disclosable, why would it need to authorize law enforcement to obtain the "information"?

The problem arises because the courts always err on the side of disclosure and have been very firm that there is no such thing as an implied exemption. So I think clarification would be very helpful, especially because there are jurisdictions disclosing these records.

Another option would be to get the AG to issue a formal opinion, or even to have DOL issue an opinion. Neither would be absolutely binding, but would be persuasive.

Thank you for attending and your comments.

Ramsey
Ramsey Ramerman
Assistant City Attorney
City of Everett
[email protected]
425-257-7009

From: Nick [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:41 PM
To: Ramsey Ramerman
Subject: Sunshine Committee

Mr. Ramerman,

Thank you for your kind words today in regards to my testimony in front of the Sunshine Committee. I look forward to any other assistance I can give the committee in regards to CPL's and public records/public disclosure.

I do suspect that the issue is already covered in state law as RCW 42.56.240 says:

"(4) License applications under RCW 9.41.070; copies of license applications or information on the applications may be released to law enforcement or corrections agencies; "

The information on the applications is identical to the application, however, strengthening the wording may be advantageous.

Regards,

Nick Smith
 
Nick &#8211; I appreciate your testimony to the committee. I wish more citizens like you had attended. Perhaps the committee is not doing an adequate job of advertising its meetings and agendas. Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

We received only ten emails from citizens with similar concerns as you. Those emails are provided in a link on the sunshine committee's website on its agenda. <broken link removed> . I am attaching them for your review.

Your interpretation of the RCW below is the current position of the Department of Licensing (and I agree with it). The information, whether it is on the application or license, is exempt and should remain confidential. It may be necessary to strengthen the wording as I am concerned that some counties do not interpret the law as you and I. There seems to be ambiguity among municipal attorneys. The Municipal Research and Services Center of WA released a recent e-newsletter on the issue and concluded that the names and addresses of permit holders are not exempt.

As I said during the meeting, I am a member of the NRA. My personal perspective is that the recent shootings in the news across the nation reflect a societal decay, and that is not a reason to attack gun rights or to invade the privacy of concealed carry permit holders. I too have a daughter and I teach her about individual responsibility and respecting others.

Let's stay in touch.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford
Open Government Ombudsman
Assistant Attorney General for Government Accountability

Attorney General of Washington
1125 Washington St, SE
Olympia, WA 98504
(360) 586-4802
[email protected]
<broken link removed>

DISCLAIMER: This email is subject to public disclosure pursuant to Ch 42.56 RCW. This email is not intended or offered to provide legal advice or legal representation by the Office of the Attorney General to any recipient.


From: Nick [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:39 PM
To: ATG MI AGO Ombudsman
Subject: Sunshine Committee

Mr. Ford,

Thank you for your kind words today in regards to my testimony in front of the Sunshine Committee. I look forward to any other assistance I can give the committee in regards to CPL's and public records/public disclosure.

I do suspect that the issue is already covered in state law as RCW 42.56.240 says:

"(4) License applications under RCW 9.41.070; copies of license applications or information on the applications may be released to law enforcement or corrections agencies; "

The information on the applications is identical to the application, however, strengthening the wording may be advantageous.

Regards,

Nick Smith
 
Ask MRSC: February 2013


If, under the Public Records Act (PRA), a person requests the names and addresses of all those individuals to which the county has issued a permit for a concealed pistol license, does a disclosure exemption or prohibition apply under RCW 9.41.129, RCW 42.56.240(4), or otherwise?

RCW 42.56.240(4) provides an "exemption" (and likely a prohibition) from disclosure for:

License applications under RCW 9.41.070; copies of license applications or information on the applications may be released to law enforcement or corrections agencies;


Note that RCW 42.56.240(4) is also referenced, in relevant part, in RCW 9.41.097 (relating to mental health information received from persons seeking to possess a pistol or be issued a concealed pistol license), RCW 9.41.129 (relating to recordkeeping requirements for the department of licensing), and RCW 36.28A.060(8) (relating to tactical and intelligence information provided to the Washington association of sheriffs and police chiefs).

We think the names and addresses of such permit holders would not fall under the exemption in RCW 42.56.240(4), because that exemption relates to information in license applications under RCW 9.41.070 and not to information in permits that have been issued. Note that exemptions from disclosure are to be narrowly construed. RCW 42.56.030.
 
I don't really care if anyone knows I have a CPL. I also can't help but giggle that you misspelled public as pubic TWICE.

Because trying to publicly shame gun owners (and put their safety and property on the line) as done in NY State could never happen here so it's totally worth a grammar nazi post
 
gogoDawgs

Your testimony is SPOT on. When I moved to Washington I wasn't even planning on carrying a concealed weapon. I got my CPL from Clark County just so I could bypass the 5 day wait, after the movie theater attack I changed my mind and carry everywhere I legally can, at least one gun. :D

This information should remain private, period. There is absolutely no reason for this information to be made public. I made a post a while back about just how many CPLs are out there, I think alot of people would be surprised to know that we have nearly 3 times per capita than Texas.

What is Holmes reason behind this ? I suspect so " they " can demonize us. It's actually interesting to analyze the thought process. Liberals want to discriminate against a entire group of people whom are practicing a constitutionally protected civil right.
 
Because trying to publicly shame gun owners (and put their safety and property on the line) as done in NY State could never happen here so it's totally worth a grammar nazi post


no, I just don't care who knows I have guns. trust me, I am in circles where it's NOT cool to have AR's and a cpl but I am who I am so they can suck it if they don't like it.


and funny misspellings are not grammer issues nor am I a Nazi. I have a limited grasp on grammer as it is.
 

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