Scotland Gun Control: Where Nightmares Are Reality

[tac]

BTW, guys, the REAL gun registration here in yUK happened the the aftermath of WW1, when the British gubmint, failed to deliver the 'land fit of heroes' that they had promised the three MILLION returning military. It suddenly occurred to them that along with discontent and rebellion popping up all over the place in Western Europe and the new Soviet Union, all of a sudden here were all these pissed people, skilled in the use of arms, and inured to hardship and misery after almost five years of the most horrendous war, so far, in human history, with a serious set of axes to grind......

In particular, the examples of the bolsheviks in Russia, where they murdered of the Royal Family - actually related to the King himself - was not something that they could easily handle. And scared fartless, then brought into being the 1920-ish Firearms Acts. Note, however, that fully-automatic firearms like the Thompson were not made totally illegal until after WW2.

Over in Ireland, my dad had to pay ten shillings to get a licence for his .22 rifle....

tac

 

[Mikej]

My worry is that here in the good 'ol USA our overlords will not only start making things illegal that are currently legal, but that they will make firearm ownership very expensive. They won't care that they've turned a right given to us buy the fathers of this country, into a right you'll need to be wealthy access. Just like so many other things in this country are moving toward, like having to buy a permit to take a short walk in the National Forest, or pull off highway 101 and watch the Ocean for a bit.

 

[Brutus57]

Hey, we only live here because we HAVE to. You don't REALLY think we live here because we WANT to, do you?

tac

I feel ya TAC, I may be getting a job in Cali for more money, but mostly so my wife can take care of her very elderly parents. I don't want to, because it goes against my beliefs but sometimes sacrifices must be made. Definitely if I get the job I am moving back to a free state at age 67!

Brutus Out

 

[DuneHopper]

My worry is that here in the good 'ol USA our overlords will not only start making things illegal that are currently legal, but that they will make firearm ownership very expensive. They won't care that they've turned a right given to us buy the fathers of this country, into a right you'll need to be wealthy access. Just like so many other things in this country are moving toward, like having to buy a permit to take a short walk in the National Forest, or pull off highway 101 and watch the Ocean for a bit.

Here we have Prozasnki with whom is planning on requiring CHL holders to pay for training and classes.
Some reason local lobbyist have yet to report this three month old news.
This will add to the cost. There is also a joint venture with Burdick to try add safety classes for first time gun purchasers. Excluding exmilitary and CHL holders.
Third ammo tax state wide is also being talked about too.
All built to put simple gun operations out of reach the laws would do nothing to prevent a crime. Or protect the public. Just more ways to punish gun owners, with feel good laws.

 

[tac]

'Inch by inch, they painted us into a corner with little 'additions', limitations, 'temporary legal requirements' and petty prohibitions, and in the end, there was nowhere left to go.'

Words written by a Jewish businessman in Munich to his nephew in England and posted the day before he was taken away forever.

I firmly believe in the takeover that many of you fear. One American once wrote - 'we should not fear our government, rather, the government should fear us.'

tac

 

[kilimanjaro]

Just how much training does Grandma need to carry a piece in her purse when she goes to the Bingo game, anyway?

And of course, there will need to be state oversight of the program, at $75,000 a year, plus a vehicle, plus travel, plus computer, plus pension, plus plus plus, all paid for from the private training receipts.

A ten-minute training video session on state laws and gun safety on a PC, that would be fine, anything more than that is excessive. Grandma doesn't need to shoot like Rambo, perform tactical reloads, or even shoot ten rounds at a target.

Three shots, three seconds, three feet. That's the average self-defense incident. Training for anything above that level is both unrealistic and a waste of time.

 

[Mikej]

I see nothing wrong with training, but agree that forcing training at a significant cost is not desirable. How many times do you read here at NWFA of new gun owners being told "Get some training!". If Prozanski and his minions put a small tax on ammo that went to the police agencies to provide some live fire training for those wanting to? That would be true "Common sense gun safety". And if, through education, large numbers of people took some training, we'all be safer down the road. Hell, I'd like to get me some better trigger control but it's going to cost better part of a C-note for an hour.

I know MY CCL class was nothing but a basic safety class. There were some folks there that had never handled a gun. For me, I was really digging in, thinking, searching. learning every thing I could when I started handling/buying firearms. Some of those folks in these classes, not so much. "Wanna get me gun so I can shoot someone if they come in my house". Getting folks like these to some training would benefit us all.

 

[DuneHopper]

I see nothing wrong with training, but agree that forcing training at a significant cost is not desirable. How many times do you read here at NWFA of new gun owners being told "Get some training!". If Prozanski and his minions put a small tax on ammo that went to the police agencies to provide some live fire training for those wanting to? That would be true "Common sense gun safety". And if, through education, large numbers of people took some training, we'all be safer down the road. Hell, I'd like to get me some better trigger control but it's going to cost better part of a C-note for an hour.

I know MY CCL class was nothing but a basic safety class. There were some folks there that had never handled a gun. For me, I was really digging in, thinking, searching. learning every thing I could when I started handling/buying firearms. Some of those folks in these classes, not so much. "Wanna get me gun so I can shoot someone if they come in my house". Getting folks like these to some training would benefit us all.

All very valid points, but the Second Amendment has no provisions for options of possession.
We allow them to put conditions on ownership they will have a foot hold. I get it, I do it sounds good on paper. Imagine a bill that said people say stupid stuff, we should pass a law that to write a book or speak in public or post on forum you need some training? After all more wars have been started with words then weapons. So if we are going to put conditions on safety for gun owners , we better implement more safety for what others say that can impact us all.
I am concerned that your focus of having training bill is cost, not violations of our right to be armed? Setting conditions on ownership is dangerous.
Let see they let idiot morons drive and buy 35 foot motorhomes and fifth wheel with no training or special license. You can buy a lawnmower, chainsaw, all with potential to harm you or others, you can buy gasoline, poisons and much more all with no training. So I get your thoughts and to say that is common sense scares the heck outta me to hear a gun owner say that it would be a good thing if they passed it and how it could be used. . Wow.
Someone wants to get more training thats awesome let "THEM PAY FOR IT " or maybe go join the military become a cop and get paid for training why should tax payers again pay for stuff a person should pay for themselves. . This scares the hell outta me to see this level of compromise being considered at all.

 

[Mikej]

The problem is, we are at a stage now where the majority keeps coming up with new restrictions that don't help solve the problem. We can't just keep screaming "From our cold dead hands! and then sit back down and shut up. We really need to be a part of coming up with something that might help the situation.

 

[eightyeight mag]

They are not the majority. They just happen to have a Majority of the media on their side.
Common sense gun laws will lead to confiscation in the end.

 

[nammac]

There's one way to prevent this, vote conservative in November and clean as many liberals out as possible...

 

[PiratePast40]

Hard to remember the topic of the thread the way it keeps bouncing around. But when it comes to new, old bills being revived for a full session, that is something that is very real. I'm sure we'll have the exact same arguments that we have every 2 years when it comes to government dictating morality. Some on this forum, that profess to be pro gun, will be shouting from the rooftops that individuals can't be trusted with guns until they pay for training, and the government must be the one to tell us what training and when to get it. There will be those that teach CHL classes siding with Prozonski and Burdick because it pads their pockets when there are more training requirements.

Yes, we're supposed to be kinder and gentler here since the new rules, but that doesn't mean we can't call a spade a spade. Regardless of which pro-gun lobby you support, we all need to get over of the "petting kittens" stage and get serious about our efforts.

nammac is right. We either get busy and make sure there is not a Dem supermajority for the next two sessions, or start practicing the Texas CHL marksmanship test. And that will be the least of our worries.

 

[kilimanjaro]

Besides registering to vote and actually voting, join the NRA or another gun rights organization.

If the NRA had ten million members, gun control would be the last thing the politicians would be pushing.

 

[Idaho44]

Just an FYI: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/scotland
Tae be sure this is guns only and doesnae include ball peen hammers etc.!

 

[tac]

ONE gun-related death per 400,000 people in the year 2011. This includes suicides, accidents and inter-gang-related shootings.

Sure doesn't sound like Chicago or Detroit, does it? Somewhere I read that there have been 160-gun-related deaths in Chicago since 1 January.......

BTW, down here in England, FOUR people have been killed in Birmingham since October 1st last year. THREE were gang-related, and the fourth one, involving an Asian businessman, was a hit.

Birmingham is a city of some million+ inhabitants.

tac

 

[edslhead]

Hey, we only live here because we HAVE to. You don't REALLY think we live here because we WANT to, do you?

tac

I thought you all lived there for the Fish N Chips

 

[tac]

Fish and Chips?

THIS is the pla(i)ce for fish and chips!



Nowhere better - trust me.

tac

 

[tac]

PD.

tac

 

[Member 3687]

They say that if folks do not learn history then it is sure to repeat itself.

Tac

I like the fact you try to keep up with all the laws and history around the world and share it as it is some good information. I have several search programs that show anything firearm related and it pulls up news articles from around the world and I also try to review history as to how this might play out for us.

Yes we have states with strict gun control like California, New Jersey as well as the District of Colombia and with Washington and Oregon that are pushing more and more so yes we have a fight ahead and this election is very important to the firearms community.

Even if the original post video was not total correct the fact that they are even considering registration of Air Guns should be a signal to firearms owners that this could happen to us if we do not stand together and act as one. Our government keep talking about Australia and England and how they solved their problems with registration and certain firearms bans and are trying to sell it here.

I also know it is not Politically Correct but it needs to be known that we the people have the final say not the government and if we the people do not like the way things are going we have the right to change the government by whatever means necessary. Why do you think they want to control guns so bad "O-ya for safety" but not ours theirs.

I live in Idaho and we currently are a pretty free state when it comes to gun laws with open carry, canceled carry and no firearm type restrictions other than federal. We are not perfect but many of us are trying to change this like Constitutional carry.

Idaho is also being taken over in the Boise area by an influx of anti gun folks from other states moving into the area for work. So if we do not keep up the fight we could end up like other states and start losing are rights one step at a time.

I still do not believe the violence is a gun issue but a cultural issue and until we fix that problem it will continue. Man has been killing man from day one and it will not stop until you ban man.

I am not the most religious person in the world but they say God gave man free will and this free will could be used for extreme good, extreme evil or somewhere in the middle so until we changes man's heart or take away mans free will it will not change.

 

[tac]

I surely do hate to do this to you gentlemen, but a small reminder is needed here. You wrote - 'I also know it is not Politically Correct but it needs to be known that we the people have the final say not the government and if we the people do not like the way things are going we have the right to change the government by whatever means necessary.'

I'll respond with THIS -

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

tac