Scope use training aid/ideas for young shooters.??

[NobullSKS]

My son is 6 and he’s like to shoot since all in the family does including his 7 year old sister. We work on safety often together, he follows directions and is mindful.

However the first trip to range….. his first shots through a scoped deuce deuce were no where near his ability with iron sights. He got really frustrated and complained about his eye or excess tears.

It’s easier for me to teach 3 post irons. But I can’t fully see what he’s seeing in scope… I can observe his eye relief and tell him to center to remove the black ring for full picture but then get crosshairs on target.
He’s struggling to manage it all right now so we’ll keep working before he’s able to participate with scope rifles.

I did a google search for a tool/trainer thing but all I got was golf stuff.

Any ideas or tools… or even a craft project to build that might replicate inside a scope? Or just wait till he can figure it on his own?

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[Andy54Hawken]

If...
He did better with using iron sights...then stick with that.
Learning should be fun , not a struggle.
Andy

 

[Knobgoblin]

Scoped air gun ? Or maybe try an open red dot type optic vs. traditional scope

 

[pharmseller]

Maybe he’s looking through the wrong eye.

I‘m assuming different rifle than iron sights, how’s the fit?

 

[Pepe-lepew]

Adjust eye relief of the scope to the optimal position. To do this have him get in proper position and note the location of his eye relative to the stock. It is best to do without the scope mounted so they don’t try to adjust front to back to compensate. If shooting in different positions you need to do this for each position as the eye will be in a different location. Mount the scope and adjust it front to back to center of the range of eye positions. To find the scope eye relief, shine a light in the objective and use a piece of paper on the eye piece end. As you move the paper away from the eye piece you will see where the eye relief is when the light concentrates to a small dot.

When shooting with the scope, use the lowest power if adjustable. Cross hair movement will not be as noticeable. Shooters in general will struggle chasing cross hair movement after transition to a scope.

Another things that trips people up is the stock comb. Many rifles with irons have a low comb. When adding a scope, the comb becomes to low. A proper height comb is needed to give a height reference for the head. With too low a comb shooters struggle to find the proper eye height.

 

[NobullSKS]

If...
He did better with using iron sights...then stick with that.
Learning should be fun , not a struggle.
Andy

I agree. Just brain storming. Just to reduce frustration for him. He just wants to shoot the same stuff his sister shoots. All kind of teachable moments in this. But yeah you’re right. That’ll what we do. He’s just little jealous of sis.

 

[NobullSKS]

Scoped air gun ? Or maybe try an open red dot type optic vs. traditional scope

Good thought. Backyard practice. Thx

 

[NobullSKS]

Adjust eye relief of the scope to the optimal position. To do this have him get in proper position and note the location of his eye relative to the stock. It is best to do without the scope mounted so they don’t try to adjust front to back to compensate. If shooting in different positions you need to do this for each position as the eye will be in a different location. Mount the scope and adjust it front to back to center of the range of eye positions. To find the scope eye relief, shine a light in the objective and use a piece of paper on the eye piece end. As you move the paper away from the eye piece you will see where the eye relief is when the light concentrates to a small dot.

When shooting with the scope, use the lowest power if adjustable. Cross hair movement will not be as noticeable. Shooters in general will struggle chasing cross hair movement after transition to a scope.

Another things that trips people up is the stock comb. Many rifles with irons have a low comb. When adding a scope, the comb becomes to low. A proper height comb is needed to give a height reference for the head. With too low a comb shooters struggle to find the proper eye height.

Yeah initially found this for my daughter…. Right handed but left eye dominant (for now) so it’s easier to shoot lefty so she does. My son actually adopts an eye patch for left because he struggled keeping one shut the whole time behind scope…. It was just a thought but he thinks it’s cool… pirate stuff.
Really nicely laid out. I like this idea to remove scope…. and replace to his head/eye position.
I don’t know why I had no idea folks were posting in thread. I got no notifications. At all and thread disappeared from my home page. I just remembered I posted this. Thx

 

[NobullSKS]

Thx for sharing thoughts folks. I had no notification there were replies.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

I over looked eye dominance for the scenario. Always shoot rifle on what side matches eye dominance. For youth they adapt easy. Vision is way more important than what side you shoot from. You can change what side you shoot from but changing eye dominance is near impossible. Good sighting with the dominate eye is beneficial for precision slow iron shots to fast accusation through the scope when shouldering a rifle to kill game. The drawback for lefty eye’ed people is finding lefty rifles or adapting to right rifles.

Blinders are used for precision shooting on the non-dominate eye by top competitors. Ideally both eyes should stay open to not get a sympathetic pupil dilation from the brain averaging light from a open and a closed eye. Blinders also prevent strain on the face from prolonged squinting or closing of one eye. The blinder should obscure the vision of the target while also allowing light into the eye. A simple piece of scotch or masking tape on safety glasses, stratigically placed, accomplishes this for cheap. I have also positioned flip scope caps to impair the non-sighting eye when open.

 

[Flopsweat]

Hand him an unmounted scope to look down. He'll move the scope to his eye instead of vice versa.

 

[kopcicle]

Just to reduce frustration for him

...and you.

TLDR warning. This is for the OP. It may be fun reading, but you were warned.


Aside from the snark, I do get it. For the small introductory price of some superficial empathy, I do have some suggestions.

Prizm scopes tend to be less affected by eye relief and somewhat less by parallax. I have several Sig Tac CP-1,s and similar that have been used to teach cross hairs.
Use your imagination and don't be afraid to sample airsoft offerings as it's a .22.
UTG comes to mind.

The classic 3/4" tube is a disaster for someone just learning cross hairs. The classic Weaver K4 or Alaskan 3x9 is a much better option even though it may dwarf the usual rifle of a young shooter. Even if these don't work now, they can easily be used later on, well, anything. If you are on skinny dovetails you will have to use your imagination.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with iron sights. Wait, what kind of iron sights?
This is kind of like ice cream, what flavor?
Peep
Diopter
Buckhorn, more on this in a bit.
leaf
Express
Ghost ring
Many more. I trust the membership to fill in this blank.

Buckhorn was my milk language. Anyone remember how to wind hold on a Buckhorn sight? The front bead just slides up the ramp on the windward side ramp of the rear sight. Regulated to caliber, powder charge, and bullet weight it just works.

I graduated to an Olympic quality peep sight. It was quite the jump. So was the jump from 25 to 100 yards. I was taught well and actually learned to respect my earlier training. The result was consistent ragged holes you could cover with a quarter. I learned to diagnose issues with the rifle by trusting my proficiency. I also learned humility from having things go pear shaped when the rifle wasn't the problem.

The M1-A1. I try really hard not to use this phrase but, in this case, I see no other option. If you have not experienced this sight, I can't explain it to you, if you have, I don't need to. DCM was a revelation. I was taught by "been there, seen that, done that, saluted it twice and moved on."

I'll finish with understanding the frustration. However, I am still proficient with iron sights within the limits of my old eyes. This has in no particular order ...

Saved a hunt and filled a deer tag when a scope fogged and failed. This happened more than once. I'm 66 years old so keep in mind optics have come a long way. in my experience Reliability now isn't now what it once was.

In boot camp I qualified expert pistol and rifle. Big deal? To me it was a big deal. Out of 80 in my company only two of us qualified expert rifle, only five in our training group of over 600. For my service week I was assigned to the range. The upside was my pistol qualification. The downside was being a recruit range safety officer. Aside from endlessly cleaning rifles, being indiscriminately terrified by recruits that had never touched a rifle was a life altering experience.

Finally, I was, at least in my own mind, an accomplished rifleman. This was accomplished entirely on iron sights. Only then did I "graduate" to an optic.
That optic was the previously mentioned Weaver K4 with the "duplex reticle."
I still have that optic and its "upgrade" the Leupold 3x9.

All this with iron sights.

 

[Joe13]

Unless I’m shooting a very long way away, I keep both eyes open….


May take a min or two to adjust but it’s pretty much the same as with irons - one eye focused on the target and the other on the crosshairs - they will line up eventually and he is young enough to be able to adapt quicker.

Just my 2¢

 

[NobullSKS]

Unless I’m shooting a very long way away, I keep both eyes open….


May take a min or two to adjust but it’s pretty much the same as with irons - one eye focused on the target and the other on the crosshairs - they will line up eventually and he is young enough to be able to adapt quicker.

Just my 2¢

Thank you.

 

[NobullSKS]

...and you.

TLDR warning. This is for the OP. It may be fun reading, but you were warned.


Aside from the snark, I do get it. For the small introductory price of some superficial empathy, I do have some suggestions.

Prizm scopes tend to be less affected by eye relief and somewhat less by parallax. I have several Sig Tac CP-1,s and similar that have been used to teach cross hairs.
Use your imagination and don't be afraid to sample airsoft offerings as it's a .22.
UTG comes to mind.

The classic 3/4" tube is a disaster for someone just learning cross hairs. The classic Weaver K4 or Alaskan 3x9 is a much better option even though it may dwarf the usual rifle of a young shooter. Even if these don't work now, they can easily be used later on, well, anything. If you are on skinny dovetails you will have to use your imagination.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with iron sights. Wait, what kind of iron sights?
This is kind of like ice cream, what flavor?
Peep
Diopter
Buckhorn, more on this in a bit.
leaf
Express
Ghost ring
Many more. I trust the membership to fill in this blank.

Buckhorn was my milk language. Anyone remember how to wind hold on a Buckhorn sight? The front bead just slides up the ramp on the windward side ramp of the rear sight. Regulated to caliber, powder charge, and bullet weight it just works.

I graduated to an Olympic quality peep sight. It was quite the jump. So was the jump from 25 to 100 yards. I was taught well and actually learned to respect my earlier training. The result was consistent ragged holes you could cover with a quarter. I learned to diagnose issues with the rifle by trusting my proficiency. I also learned humility from having things go pear shaped when the rifle wasn't the problem.

The M1-A1. I try really hard not to use this phrase but, in this case, I see no other option. If you have not experienced this sight, I can't explain it to you, if you have, I don't need to. DCM was a revelation. I was taught by "been there, seen that, done that, saluted it twice and moved on."

I'll finish with understanding the frustration. However, I am still proficient with iron sights within the limits of my old eyes. This has in no particular order ...

Saved a hunt and filled a deer tag when a scope fogged and failed. This happened more than once. I'm 66 years old so keep in mind optics have come a long way. in my experience Reliability now isn't now what it once was.

In boot camp I qualified expert pistol and rifle. Big deal? To me it was a big deal. Out of 80 in my company only two of us qualified expert rifle, only five in our training group of over 600. For my service week I was assigned to the range. The upside was my pistol qualification. The downside was being a recruit range safety officer. Aside from endlessly cleaning rifles, being indiscriminately terrified by recruits that had never touched a rifle was a life altering experience.

Finally, I was, at least in my own mind, an accomplished rifleman. This was accomplished entirely on iron sights. Only then did I "graduate" to an optic.
That optic was the previously mentioned Weaver K4 with the "duplex reticle."
I still have that optic and its "upgrade" the Leupold 3x9.

All this with iron sights.

Got your message. Thx

 

[titsonritz]

Start him on a red dot.

 

[titsonritz]

Maybe a LPVO where he can start with 1x and dial up.