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Sci channel show tries to prove trigger pulls the finger and it stinks!
- Thread Starter Mygrainman
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- Thread Starter
- #42
hard for me to trust a scientist's theories considering hubris compounds confirmation bias. Unless it's my bias he's confirming...Science documentaries are easy. Think up a conclusion, and write and film a blazing fake experiment for it!
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I am not a scientist , nor do I play one one TV , But...
As for the theory that just seeing a gun or having a gun nearby promotes or causes violence or violent thoughts...
How about reading any of the threads on concealed carry advice on just this site?
Many of the posts in these threads come down to: "Avoid trouble at all costs."
Or reading the threads on self / home defense ...
Many posts state: "I hope to never have to use my gun." Or words to that affect.
This says to me , that most folks , even those who have a gun for the sole purpose of protection , either go out of their way to not have to use it or have no overwhelming desire to use their gun*.
Doesn't sound all that violent to me ... But again I am not a scientist paid for by someone with a biased agenda.
Or how about personal experience ... I have a few guns , many of my friends have guns.
Many of us have easy access to the guns we own or a permit to carry and do so daily.
If guns caused violent thoughts , I'd think we'd make the news....
Andy
*Edit to add :
The use of a gun itself does not equal violence.
This very weekend I will be using my blackpowder rifles at a range and as teaching tools.
No violence required or wanted.
As for the theory that just seeing a gun or having a gun nearby promotes or causes violence or violent thoughts...
How about reading any of the threads on concealed carry advice on just this site?
Many of the posts in these threads come down to: "Avoid trouble at all costs."
Or reading the threads on self / home defense ...
Many posts state: "I hope to never have to use my gun." Or words to that affect.
This says to me , that most folks , even those who have a gun for the sole purpose of protection , either go out of their way to not have to use it or have no overwhelming desire to use their gun*.
Doesn't sound all that violent to me ... But again I am not a scientist paid for by someone with a biased agenda.
Or how about personal experience ... I have a few guns , many of my friends have guns.
Many of us have easy access to the guns we own or a permit to carry and do so daily.
If guns caused violent thoughts , I'd think we'd make the news....
Andy
*Edit to add :
The use of a gun itself does not equal violence.
This very weekend I will be using my blackpowder rifles at a range and as teaching tools.
No violence required or wanted.
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- #44
That's what gets me... Self defense, or preservation by any means does not equal violence. It's an instinctual response to a threat to ones life. Acting on a knee jerk instinct present in every living organism on earth is not a disease either... nor are the tools we use to tip the balance in our favor. A premeditated attempt to take away our lives or the ability(tools used)to defend or preserve it... That's an epidemic.
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For some one as intelligent as Morgan Freeman, I would have expected better, but to him, it's just a fat paycheck!
As always, AndyinEverson states it best! I can see another side to this though, having the ability is an "Enabler" weather it's a gun or a knife or ( Pick any tool) that gives a person the ability to level the field, or even better, tip the scale in favor of, I think THIS is something the other side uses as an argument, it's plain to see they are reaching with this, BUT........ there is some small measure of truth here! Because of these tools, How mush safer do they make you feel, and if you didn't have them one day, would you still feel as safe?
As always, AndyinEverson states it best! I can see another side to this though, having the ability is an "Enabler" weather it's a gun or a knife or ( Pick any tool) that gives a person the ability to level the field, or even better, tip the scale in favor of, I think THIS is something the other side uses as an argument, it's plain to see they are reaching with this, BUT........ there is some small measure of truth here! Because of these tools, How mush safer do they make you feel, and if you didn't have them one day, would you still feel as safe?
Yea, I've been wanting to talk to you about punctuation... Amigo, you make reading an art form... I read the whole post and then go back and reread with imaginary punctuation...
I thought it was just me that did that...
Hay, at least the spelling and punctuation Nazi's are not all over ya, that always brings out my fangs!
Who the EFF cares that one word can be spelled 16 ways, READ and figure it out on your onesome!
Keep at it EPS, don't let um get to ya!
I'm a closet grammar nazi, but my parents would be disappointed if I came out, so I just keep quiet about it.
I swear sometimes my head could explode! Still love this one:
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
It's sad that guns have become so politicized and that the truth about guns and gun owners has become so distorted. I know so many people that own guns that would never, ever commit a crime, use their gun in anger or be any kind of threat to anyone, save for someone attacking them or their family. Fact is, if gun owners were a problem, this would be a very different country. It's criminals that are the problem - the tools they use, basically irrelevant. This is all political BS meant to gain money, power and control, nothing more.
I like Morgan Freeman, a lot, but damn son, get off the Hollywood anti-freedom bandwagon.
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I think sometimes its important to just say the obvious.
Cutting through all the crap, they are claiming an inanimate object causes violence? That should be patently a ridiculous principle. A chunk of metal is a chunk of metal. It can only be the cultural symbolism the gun represents which is more of a Rorschach test of the individual. It would be foolhardy to generalize Rorschach tests, which is exactly what this is, because the gun has no ability to actually effect anything. Only the response of the individual here does anything. I would find it interesting to see a distinction between say, CCW holders, police, Military, and those with no exposure to firearms. I suspect the difference would be extreme.
Now there is a cultural component of how people react to guns. I suspect who you chose would completely doctor the test. If you stick an urban teen with Call of Duty and GTA experience I suspect you are setting themselves up to subconsciously act how they would in a game. If you put me in that car, first thing I would do is secure the gun. I would never drive with a gun not secured in the car. I wouldn't want to get t-boned and have a gun discharge because of debris in the impact.
I find that I drive more cautiously with my CCW. I don't want trouble with cops while carrying. I hope to never have to use a gun in self defense again. (I have had to and have nightmares about it.) I still love shooting my guns. I love shooting, but I can say I never want to shoot anybody. I don't even like silhouette targets actually.
A gun around seems like it would slow me down. I suspect putting one in the car would slow many of us down as respect for guns was drilled into me since I was around 3. I suspect I am not alone. Curiously I also make sure to drive cautiously when carrying power tools in the car. Any time I carry things with the power to harm I am more cautious.
Cutting through all the crap, they are claiming an inanimate object causes violence? That should be patently a ridiculous principle. A chunk of metal is a chunk of metal. It can only be the cultural symbolism the gun represents which is more of a Rorschach test of the individual. It would be foolhardy to generalize Rorschach tests, which is exactly what this is, because the gun has no ability to actually effect anything. Only the response of the individual here does anything. I would find it interesting to see a distinction between say, CCW holders, police, Military, and those with no exposure to firearms. I suspect the difference would be extreme.
Now there is a cultural component of how people react to guns. I suspect who you chose would completely doctor the test. If you stick an urban teen with Call of Duty and GTA experience I suspect you are setting themselves up to subconsciously act how they would in a game. If you put me in that car, first thing I would do is secure the gun. I would never drive with a gun not secured in the car. I wouldn't want to get t-boned and have a gun discharge because of debris in the impact.
I find that I drive more cautiously with my CCW. I don't want trouble with cops while carrying. I hope to never have to use a gun in self defense again. (I have had to and have nightmares about it.) I still love shooting my guns. I love shooting, but I can say I never want to shoot anybody. I don't even like silhouette targets actually.
A gun around seems like it would slow me down. I suspect putting one in the car would slow many of us down as respect for guns was drilled into me since I was around 3. I suspect I am not alone. Curiously I also make sure to drive cautiously when carrying power tools in the car. Any time I carry things with the power to harm I am more cautious.
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I say to Mr. Morgan.
Lets take your thought, now tell me in a world with no firearms would there be no violence ?
Would there be less, or would there be more ? Looking back at human history the more advancement in protection instruments the more violence is diminished. In fact the bases for individual protection over just having the governing body armed is that it, one creates protection against tyranny; and two it creates a fail safe for the government to ensure the majority of people are protected at their own cost.
I wrote and article on this and maybe I will do a pod cast on it .
But, weapons are not created to cause death, they are created to diminish them.
A thousand years ago, armies had swords and people had basic tools.
However when a people have the same weapon it equalizes the situation.
A thought,
Three men, approach you in a parking lot. Yelling give me your wallet.
Two have bats one has a knife.
You are in this situation, a victim, a statistic, or a witness to the injuries sustained by those three.
You do not avoid the first two by passive response, passive response will make you a victim and possibly even a a statistic. However if you are armed with equal or greater force like a firearm that 3 on 1 is no longer tilted in their favor. Ive seen shows like this and if you just get a apple and take a bite out of it with out looking on the other side of the apple where the worm is you are not making wise choices.Today most shows are leaning antigun biased supporting the nimrods whom own these station. No science or fact here just ratings and pay checks.
Lets take your thought, now tell me in a world with no firearms would there be no violence ?
Would there be less, or would there be more ? Looking back at human history the more advancement in protection instruments the more violence is diminished. In fact the bases for individual protection over just having the governing body armed is that it, one creates protection against tyranny; and two it creates a fail safe for the government to ensure the majority of people are protected at their own cost.
I wrote and article on this and maybe I will do a pod cast on it .
But, weapons are not created to cause death, they are created to diminish them.
A thousand years ago, armies had swords and people had basic tools.
However when a people have the same weapon it equalizes the situation.
A thought,
Three men, approach you in a parking lot. Yelling give me your wallet.
Two have bats one has a knife.
You are in this situation, a victim, a statistic, or a witness to the injuries sustained by those three.
You do not avoid the first two by passive response, passive response will make you a victim and possibly even a a statistic. However if you are armed with equal or greater force like a firearm that 3 on 1 is no longer tilted in their favor. Ive seen shows like this and if you just get a apple and take a bite out of it with out looking on the other side of the apple where the worm is you are not making wise choices.Today most shows are leaning antigun biased supporting the nimrods whom own these station. No science or fact here just ratings and pay checks.
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Times are a changin!
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LOL, I have to stop if it's more than about (who can say for sure?) four sentences or I get a headache.I thought it was just me that did that...
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He owns the town he grew up in in the south he has the perfect opportunity to do the test no guns allowed in his town put it up on big bill board and let everyone know that nobody in this town owns a gun and see what happens (people) will come from all over the U.S. to rob the people of that town lol
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Yes, punctuation is important but I really don't care (hey stomper .... I couldn't care less ) especially on forums, boards whatever. I can tell what people are saying. EPS, don't change .... that goes for the rest of you as well. For whatever my opinion matters, NOT at all.
Let's eat, Grandma!
Let's eat Grandma!
Anyhow, I thought an object at rest tends to stay at rest, Newton's law or something like that. Seems to me it's pretty easy to keep the trigger resting as they don't move all on their own. Why? Because a firearm is an inanimate object. (I'm right .... right?)
) especially on forums, boards whatever. I can tell what people are saying. EPS, don't change .... that goes for the rest of you as well. For whatever my opinion matters, NOT at all.Let's eat, Grandma!
Let's eat Grandma!
Anyhow, I thought an object at rest tends to stay at rest, Newton's law or something like that. Seems to me it's pretty easy to keep the trigger resting as they don't move all on their own. Why? Because a firearm is an inanimate object. (I'm right .... right?)
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