Scalia: Guns may be regulated

[Darknight]

So number of green states between 1986 and 2011 doesn't matter either ? What part of "unrestricted" don't you understand!

I completely understand; you are talking about areas that used to not have to issue cc permits and now have to and I am talking about the fact that we shouldn't have to have permits at all, period. If we ever get a chart that shows that much blue for unrestricted, then it would be worth posting, but until then.....It's just another government regulated program that we have to pay for and allows the government to keep track of who has the permits and who doesn't.

 

[fd15k]

I completely understand; you are talking about areas that used to not have to issue cc permits and now have to

Those are blue areas on the map.

and I am talking about the fact that we shouldn't have to have permits at all, period.

Those are green areas on the map.

 

[Darknight]

Those are blue areas on the map.

Blue= states that have government sponsored and government controlled programs for cc permits that have to be paid for by the end user to exercise their rights. So bacically they have figured out a way to keep track of a segment of the population carrying guns in public;more control. Imagine if all the blue states decided they would give you even more freedom and require you to get a permit to oc as well as cc, but you could travel from state to state with unlimited reciprocity;even more control yet. Licensing programs like these just put more people on the grid. You can disagree all you want as to whether it's a good thing, but the facts are the facts when it comes to a government controlled licensing program such as this one.

Those are green areas on the map.

Green= states that actually may have a clue as to what our 2a rights are all about; the entire map should be green.

 

[Kelzebubba]

That is just wrong. Especially when you think of what the state of weapons technology was in the 1780's! The Constitution intended the Militia to be able to defend the country from enemies foreign and domestic and that militia would have to be as well armed as the military it was opposing.

My opinion!

I second this motion and agree to defend it!

 

[fd15k]

I second this motion and agree to defend it!

National Guard.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

National Guard.

The National Guard is a federal system now, it is in no way the Militia

 

[AlphaCoyote]

The National Guard is a federal system now, it is in no way the Militia

Not sure exactly what this means. But the National Guard has been a part of the "federal system" for over 100 years and is very much a part of the Militia of the United States. I agree that the NG doesn't feel like the sort of militia we think about when we think about preventing internal tyranny, given that they are under the control of Governors and can be appropriated by the feds. But the law of the land is the law of the land.

Here is 10 USC Section 311, dating from 1903 and still in effect:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not....

Notice that if you are 45 years or older you are NOT part of the militia of the U.S. I miss all the fun.

 

[AlphaCoyote]

And not to hijack this thread, but the original U.S. Constitution doesn't really recognize the Militia as an anti-federal force. To the contrary, in Article I, sec. 8 the Framers gave Congress the authority to use the Militia to "suppress insurrections." And Article II, sec. 2 makes the President commander in chief of all the state Militias when called up, which the Framers also provided for.

 

[fd15k]

And not to hijack this thread, but the original U.S. Constitution doesn't really recognize the Militia as an anti-federal force. To the contrary, in Article I, sec. 8 the Framers gave Congress the authority to use the Militia to "suppress insurrections." And Article II, sec. 2 makes the President commander in chief of all the state Militias when called up, which the Framers also provided for.

You can not be right because if you are, we lose the only argument in support of stocking up mortirs and SAMs

 

[AlphaCoyote]

You can not be right because if you are, we lose the only argument in support of stocking up mortirs and SAMs

Depends on how you read the Second Amendment, which was intended to clarify the provisions of Article I, section 8 to make it clear that the right of the people to keep and bear arms could not be infringed. The interplay between 2A and I,8 is at the crux of the debate about "which arms" the people were guaranteed. And I don't see any qualification in 2A. Meaning: The Congress can use the National Guard to suppress insurrection, but they'd better watch out, because the people will also be armed and may be armed with advanced military equipment sufficient to oppose the National Guard or a federal military. Checks and balances. That's what the Constitution and Bill of Rights were all about.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Not sure exactly what this means. But the National Guard has been a part of the "federal system" for over 100 years and is very much a part of the Militia of the United States. I agree that the NG doesn't feel like the sort of militia we think about when we think about preventing internal tyranny, given that they are under the control of Governors and can be appropriated by the feds. But the law of the land is the law of the land.

Here is 10 USC Section 311, dating from 1903 and still in effect:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not....

Notice that if you are 45 years or older you are NOT part of the militia of the U.S. I miss all the fun.

Militias are state institutions that do not have to answer to federal control. The National guard is not the Militia

 

[gehrheart]

Militias are state institutions that do not have to answer to federal control. The National guard is not the Militia

Bingo!

 

[gehrheart]

I still find it abhorrent that I have to ASK permission to exercise a RIGHT!

Was it worse 40 years ago is not the question, nor the issue at hand. Its not right now. And wont be until all states are green, and all states end there unconstitutional restrictions on firearms.