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SC Church Shooter Passes BG Check by Mistake

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Juggernaut, Jul 10, 2015.

  1. Juggernaut

    Juggernaut Ory'gun Active Member

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    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/al...due-to-background-check-mix-up-fbi/ar-AAcOUIJ
    Obviously someone will be looking for a new job.. maybe the TSA.

    Even blatant failures of their latest wonder idea won't silence the shrill voices of those 'Demanding Moms' or Bloombergs' Goons. Just like right here in Oregon, where our Legislatures sat unblinking while OSP laid out what an abject failure the States BG Check system has been. Didn't even give them a moments pause before pulling the lever.

    I'm left wondering just how catastrophic the event is going to have to be that will finally wake these anti-rights people from their delusion.
     
  2. donaldc

    donaldc Seattle Active Member

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    The anti-gun activists and some news media are already calling this a "loophole" in the background check system.
    http://nyti.ms/1UKm666

    I'm also reading comments saying we should close this "loophole", so even after the three days has passed someone can't buy a gun. You can bet the anti-gun activists will be pushing for that. I'm guessing everyone here can see where this is going - suddenly the FBI database has become extremely slow and it takes months or years to complete the background check.
     
  3. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Last two high profile murders had government failures involved. Roof passed a background check even as a felon and the San Fran killer was let loose by the beauacracy and even supplied a gun by a land management employee.

    We have the best system in the world run by the most incompetent people possible.
     
    Hayshaker and boogerhook like this.
  4. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect to people's 2nd amendment rights, this is why I don't transfer the gun after the three days. It is at the dealers discretion whether or not to transfer the gun while waiting for the government to conclude the BGC. This nightmare scenario is why I don't. It has been my policy as long as I've had my FFL. The BGC has to be complete before the transfer. I wouldn't break this rule for my own mother.
     
    lfromsalem likes this.
  5. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I had more than a dozen BGCs last year and all were delayed. Why I don't know. You would have lost me as a customer after just a few.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
  6. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Do you refund the money after three days if the check is slow?
     
  7. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    If the GOV cant handle the checks I would rather they do away with them than deny me buying guns.
     
    Hayshaker likes this.
  8. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    This makes no sense at all to me. There appear to be three items on the 4473 where an affirmative answer could have caused him to be disqualified. First two are 11b & c:
    b. Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year?

    c. Have you been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?

    And the third is e:
    e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or or any other controlled substance?

    Based on the articles, it there isn't enough information to show that he was under indictment or convicted of possession of the pills. Nor is there anything to suggest that he is a user of, or addicted to any drugs. So where are they coming up with the assertion that he should have been turned down?
     
  9. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    The system is only as good as the people running it. This sounds like a case of garbage in, garbage out. The locals screwed up getting the drug arrest information to the Feds; and the Feds screwed up their request for more complete information from the locals.

    This is not the first high profile mass shooting case where the individual slipped through because of bureaucratic error. Both the Virginia Tech killer and the guy who shot Gabby Giffords obtained firearms after going through the background check system. Reportedly, each one should have been denied but the information about their issues hadn't been input properly.

    Roof's admission of the drug crime (narcotics) should have disqualified him according to the Director of the FBI.

    The thing to keep in mind is when the government has a story that makes them look bad, they release it on a Friday. The FBI wants to pin this on an alleged "loophole" or the locals; but in reality the agency dropped the ball by contacting the wrong law enforcement agency when it attempted to follow up on the drug arrest. There will be little reporting about this over the weekend. In two days, most people will forget the FBI's error; however, they'll still be upset about that "loophole" they can't define or explain.
     
  10. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Odds are the government will use their failure on the check to ask for waiting periods to buy a gun. Figure they will start with 12 days then move it to 30 days before you can have your new gun. It's the way they think, a non solution to every problem.
     
    Slobray and The Heretic like this.
  11. Classic

    Classic Federal Way WA Well-Known Member

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    Funny, when this 1st happened the press reported that he was given the gun by his father for his 21st birthday. Now they seem to be changing the story? Did dad just pay for the gun but the kid did the paperwork?
    All the pictures they have posted of the kid with the huge bags under his eyes... I'm thinking the news is trying to make him the poster child for racially motivated shooting. Where's Charlie Manson when ya need him?:rolleyes:
     
  12. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I don't take payment until the check clears.

    If you had dozens of background checks delayed and haven't gotten a UPIN or something else to fix the situation, the that seems like your issue.

    I don't want to lose customers, but it's not worth the risk to my livelihood if something like this were to happen. Don't tell me that someone won't try to sue that gun shop...
     
    Mikej likes this.
  13. boogerhook

    boogerhook Seattle Well-Known Member

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    LOL, maybe "more than a dozen" is the reason they were delayed ;-) Just kidding. I have had months in which I purchased 3 or so, but then I also had years without any activity.
     
  14. boogerhook

    boogerhook Seattle Well-Known Member

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  15. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    "If you had dozens of background checks delayed and haven't gotten a UPIN or something else to fix the situation, the that seems like your issue"

    I did look into the UPIN, too many hoops. I don't mind waiting and it usually is just a day or two. My shop knows me and knows I've passed multiple check so the 2 guns that went past the wait period they had no problem handing over to me. When you've already gone through a CCL there is no reason to perform continual checks on someone. It's a waste of time and money.
     
  16. boogerhook

    boogerhook Seattle Well-Known Member

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    I agree, a current/valid CPL should be good enough. They could call in the CPL to make sure it hasn't been revoked - but that would be it. It would also lighten the workload significantly, as most who buy multiple firearms typically have a CPL.
     
  17. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily disagree. Trust me, it would be easier for me as a dealer to simply note your CCL on the 4473 and let you out the door. At the end of the day, I am a gun guy first. I don't agree with most of the firearms laws. But there are certain things that I must do in order to maintain my license. Following laws I don't necessarily agree with is one. But this is my livelihood. It is how I provide for my family.

    Honestly, I don't have the capital to defend myself against a frivolous lawsuit brought because someone criminally or negligently used a gun that I released after the three days. Nor am I under any illusions that my business insurance would cover it. We are forced to make choices in life. You have chosen not to get a UPIN and to deal with delays. I have chosen not to release guns until background checks clear. I'm sorry to hear I would have lost you as a customer, as I do pride myself on customer service, but that can only go so far.
     
  18. slimer13

    slimer13 Deer Park Well-Known Member

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    Has there been instances of ffls being sued for releasing a firearm after the three days?

    If not, not releasing it when according to law you are allowed to seems unwarranted.

    You say you are a gun guy and don't agree with most gun laws but then you take it further than their current law.

    I've never dealt with a lgs that had this policy and would not. You say you have it to protect your business, but it may also be hurting it.
     
  19. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    As a person who gets frequent delays I can tell you that most gun shops will not release the firearm after the three days (at least the ones I have dealt with) I have had one at Sportsman's Warehouse that went past the three days and one at Surplus Arms and Ammo. Both opted to terminate the transaction rather than hand it over. (and although it is frustrating I dont blame them) A small mom and pop store who has a relationship with the customer is one thing, But any big retailer will be in the same boat as Mountain Bear, The $50-$100 profit from selling one gun is simply not worth the potential multi million dollar lawsuit.

    As far as a UIPN, Well I applied for one 8 months ago and have yet to receive one. Who knows how long its going to take. In the mean time Its real difficult for me to buy anything. I pretty much cant buy used since I594 passed because I will get a delay and it becomes to problematic.
     
  20. Hayshaker

    Hayshaker Irrigon Active Member

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    The Government is too busy denying Veterans their gun rights because they answered "yes " sometimes about problems in their lives ~~ money/health family {kids} etc.