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SBR in WA

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by gunjunky, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. gunjunky

    gunjunky Arlington, WA Active Member

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    Trying to get ahead of the curve. It looks like Wa is moving forward with SBR's and when this legislation passes I will setting a rifle up.

    So I want to understand what is expected and figure this is a great place for some pre-approval education. From my very limited research I have to mark the rifle with my personal info. Does that mean the serialized component ie.. AR lower, Sig 556 upper.

    I have not decided which way I will go yet but have a number of lowers that could be use for this process one of which currently is used for an ARAK 21. This is an easy system to install a 12.5" barrel on and would be a good candidate. However, I plan to by one of the new Sig XI rifles when they hit the market. This system is suppose to have 10.5" user changeable barrels in 5.56, 300 blk and 7.62. The lower on the rifle has to be changed for the proper magazine to support the fired cal. This seems like the ideal way to have it all; if I have to mark the upper and then could have an SBR in my selected cal and configuration with only having to register one rifle.

    So the question is will this be legal, thoughts.
     
  2. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    Generally people engrave the serialized part when they register a SBR, but not exclusively.

    I'm going to SBR my Uzi model B carbine. I plan to engrave the barrel.
     
  3. nastybynature

    nastybynature ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Active Member

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    So if it was going to be in an NFA trust, do you put the trust info on it?

    Hoping that E-file will be possible for SBR....
     
  4. Mr Smith

    Mr Smith 54 68 65 20 73 74 69 63 6b 73 Active Member

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    depends.

    Are you just going to install a short barrel on an existing rifle, or are you going to saw a barrel off shorter yourself?

    If you are doing something like an AR-15, then just put the serial number from the lower receiver in the trust and submit that with the lowers manufacturer info which is already engraved into the lower as well as the place of origin, and then that lower becomes a registered NFA item which will allow you to have as many short barreled uppers as you want for it as long as they only go on that lower, or go on a pistol lower.

    Now if you are just making your own by sawing off or if you have an 80% lower you made the rifle out of yourself, you will need to engrave the trust name, the city/state it was done in, and a serial number which all needs to be included in the trust and the form 1. The engravings must also be plainly visible and a certain depth and letter height.
     
    Detachment2 likes this.
  5. the puma

    the puma Oregon City Active Member

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    If you're simply buying an SBR that's already an SBR, you'll just need to transfer via a Form 4. No extra engraving or anything.

    If you're making an SBR out of a non-NFA firearm (making an SBR AR from scratch or putting a short barrel on an existing rifle, for example) you'll have to use Form 1 and you will need to engrave your name, city and state (or the name of your Trust as well as city and state) as the maker because you are making an SBR.
     
  6. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    If you are registering the firearm as a SBR, then yes. You put the trust name, city and state on the firearm. That is why it is a good idea to have a short trust name such as ABC NFA Trust where "ABC" is your initials.
     
  7. tyk77781

    tyk77781 Aberdeen Member

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    I heard that we can't form 1 in wa state only form 4..... Is that true?
     
  8. telero

    telero Salem area, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That wouldn't make any sense. You can already form 1 silencers.
     
  9. tyk77781

    tyk77781 Aberdeen Member

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    That's what my dealer was telling me.... And it sounds weird to me but he's saying we can't form 1 lowers and custom build but we have to buy complete sbr on form 4 only.... Wtf?
     
  10. spectra

    spectra The Couve Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

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    From what I heard yes that is true. I guess it was in the wording of the bill. There are people working to change it and hopefully that happens.

    I already have parts that I was going to make a SBR out of once I heard the bill passed. Well then heard this info and now well who knows. A lot cheaper to build your own over buying a Noveske ready to go. They are nice rifles but they are spendy!
     
  11. telero

    telero Salem area, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Interesting...the text reads (relating to SBRs and removing the other weapons classification language):

    "Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any short-barreled rifle."

    "It is not unlawful for a person to possess, transport, acquire, or transfer a short-barreled rifle that is legally registered and possessed, transported, acquired, or transferred in accordance with federal law."


    So in the first part it specifically mentions manufacturing as being illegal, and in the second part it doesn't specify that manufacturing per federal law is OK. I guess it might depend on the definition of the word acquire in the second part...one way to acquire an SBR in accordance to federal law is to file a form 1 and manufacture it.

    From the first to second section, it's like own, buy, sell, loan, and furnish could all be lumped into the term possess. So maybe manufacture would be lumped in with the legally registered and possessed wording. The second section also doesn't allow the possession of parts to convert a weapon into an SBR, or the repair of an SBR. But those are allowed in accordance to federal law once an SBR is registered and possessed.


    Theoretically, you're already in possession of contraband since the bill hasn't been enacted as law yet. And possibly you'd still be in possession of contraband once the change is enacted until you have an approved form 1, assuming that a form 1 will be allowed.
     
  12. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    The discussion is understandable based on what looks like incomplete wording in the bill itself.

    But when we see the brief created by legal staff for the legislators, the intent becomes clear. In it's title the brief says:

    "Brief Summary of Bill
    Legalizes the possession, transportation, acquisition, or transfer of a short-barreled
    rifle that is legally registered and possessed, transported, acquired, or transferred in
    compliance with federal law."


    It doesn't say anything about "prohibiting the manufacture of a SBR" and in fact discusses the procedure of how it's legal to create an SBR.

    Here is the ink to the brief: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bill Reports/House/5956 HBA JUDI 14.pdf

    It says, (blue color below is mine for emphasis):


    ******************************************************
    Washington State
    House of Representatives
    Office of Program Research
    BILL ANALYSIS
    Judiciary Committee SB 5956
    Title
    : An act relating to short-barreled rifles.
    Brief Description: Concerning short-barreled rifles.
    Sponsors: Senators Hatfield, Sheldon and Braun.
    Brief Summary of Bill

    Legalizes the possession, transportation, acquisition, or transfer of a short-barreled

    rifle that is legally registered and possessed, transported, acquired, or transferred in

    compliance with federal law.

    Hearing Date: 2/26/14
    Staff: Edie Adams (786-7180).
    Background:

    With certain exceptions, it is a class C felony in Washington for a person to manufacture, own,
    buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport or have in the person's possession a machine gun, short-barreled
    shotgun, or short-barreled rifle. It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the person
    acquired the firearm prior to July 1, 1994, and possesses the firearm in compliance with federal
    law.
    A "short-barreled rifle" is a rifle having a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches in length, or a
    weapon made from a rifle if the modified weapon has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
    The National Firearms Act (NFA) regulates the manufacture, importation, and transfer of certain
    firearms, including short-barreled rifles, destructive devices, and other weapons. Items regulated
    under the NFA are referred to as NFA firearms. NFA firearms must be registered in a database
    maintained by the National Firearms Act Branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms,
    and Explosives (ATF).
    ––––––––––––––––––––––
    This analysis was prepared by non-partisan legislative staff for the use of legislative
    members in their deliberations. This analysis is not a part of the legislation nor does it
    constitute a statement of legislative intent.

    House Bill Analysis - 1 - SB 5956
    A person wishing to acquire a NFA firearm has to obtain a certification from the local chief law
    enforcement officer, undergo a background check, obtain prior approval for the transfer, and pay
    a $200 tax on the transaction. The ATF will not approve a transfer if the transfer would place the
    transferee in violation of any federal, state, or local law. The ATF also will not approve a transfer
    of a NFA firearm unless it is registered to the transferor. Unregistered NFA firearms generally
    may not be lawfully received, possessed, or transferred.
    Under the NFA, a person is allowed to make his or her own NFA firearm by applying to the ATF

    and meeting certain requirements. These requirements include: obtaining prior approval and

    registration of the item, obtaining a certification from the chief of the local law enforcement

    agency, undergoing a background check, and paying a $200 tax on the item.

    A person who possesses a firearm registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer

    Record must retain proof of registration which must be made available to the ATF upon request.

    Summary of Bill:

    It is not unlawful for a person to the possess, transport, acquire, or transfer a short-barreled rifle
    that is legally registered and possessed, transported, acquired, or transferred in compliance with
    federal law.
    Appropriation: None.
    Fiscal Note: Not requested.
    Effective Date: The bill takes effect 90 days after adjournment of the session in which the bill is

    passed.
    House
    ********************************************************
    In my view, the intent here is to allow us to "acquire" an SBR and they do not prohibit "acquiring" one by legal NFA means, specifically to Form 1 the manufacture. In simplest terms manufacturing = acquiring.

    It will not surprise me a bit to see a hastily added amendment that spells out NFA Form 1 manufacture is OK. Certainly BATFE will not approve a Form 1 for you in Washington unless they are sure state law allows it, and we can't "acquire" one by manufacturing without the Form 1 stamp anyhow.

    Now how anybody could interpret the bill as prohibiting acquisition of a multicaliber lower intended t be an SBR it would have to be out of an inability to read and understand English as it is used in legal language, because it is not prohibited in the language of the bill, even as it stands now..
     
  13. spectra

    spectra The Couve Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

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    Well theoretically I am able to build a pistol by law.... but would like to see how this turns out as I would
    rather build a SBR over a pistol. And as far as contraband good luck on that one as last time I checked it was not illegal to have parts to build a AR.
     
  14. Redtazdog

    Redtazdog Washington in the sticks Active Member

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    That is a
    Brief Summary of Bill
    and it changed

    to the bill with less language that was passed
     
  15. telero

    telero Salem area, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You did say you're intent was to make an SBR though.
     
  16. Redtazdog

    Redtazdog Washington in the sticks Active Member

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    So if I have 20 short AR barrels and all the parts to complete 20 short uppers am I building NFA items
    without stamps ?
    LOL
    DSCN3327w.jpg
     
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  17. telero

    telero Salem area, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    NFA is federal, so no. WA statute, maybe.
     
  18. spectra

    spectra The Couve Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

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    Yes my intent is to make a SBR legally but if we are not able to well guess that is not going to happen. In that case well guess we will have to buy one already manufactured and form 4 it.

    Oh and I am sure I am not the only one who wants to build one:)
     
  19. Redtazdog

    Redtazdog Washington in the sticks Active Member

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    There is no maybe, its yes or no and as long as you have a pistol lower you can build as many short barrel uppers you want.
     
    Nwcid likes this.
  20. jekbrown

    jekbrown vancouver, WA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way Active Member

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    No. Form 1 has nothing to do with manufacturing. Its making and registering... Which is much different. You need to be licensed to manufacture guns. Iirc manufacture use a Form 2.

    Legally "acquire" means to take possession. Taking possession occurs days after the ATF has registered your SBR. You cannot take possession until after the atf has registered an sbr. Therefore, the current law, with its current language, allows us to acquire SBR via form 1. It's legal to possess, transfer, and acquire. 1 and 3, and compliance with nfa law, is all we need. We don't need a permission slip from the damn AG!