Oregon SB 978 Place Holder Anti-Gun Bill

[Nick Burkhardt]

Continue to encourage others to submit written testimony, we have until 17:00 tomorrow to get them in. Encourage friends and relatives to get involved, a clear message of "No More Laws, Not One More Law" must be made clear to these legislators.

It's bad enough they just stole $108M from next years kicker, the democrats in the marble nuthouse are out of control...

 

[Provincial]

Oh For F Sake!

Prozanski added Dash 2 and Dash 3 amendments AFTER the hearing

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2019R1/Downloads/ProposedAmendment/15002

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2019R1/Downloads/ProposedAmendment/15003

[email protected]

So what are the changes? There should be a requirement that any changes be presented in such a manner that they can be easily identified.

 

[N Monty]

So what are the changes? There should be a requirement that any changes be presented in such a manner that they can be easily identified.

There should be a requirement that you can't fuggin' amend a 1-paragraph bill into 44 pages, two days before the hearting.

Edit: To say nothing about adding two more 44-page amendments to the bill DURING THE HEARING!

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

If you didn't get a chance to send in your testimony by yesterday you can still make your voice heard by emailing the individual committee members. Their addresses are listed below:

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

[arakboss]

Last Ditch Effort To Oppose SB 978:

We have been blessed with perfect letter writing weather. As a last ditch effort to influence the Senate Judiciary Committee to vote no on SB 978, I am spreading this request around to send last minute letters to the Senate Judiciary Committee members.
The easy way is to use this link:
Votility
Note: This will send an email to all the legislators I would suggest changing the subject title.

A better way would be to copy and paste these emails in the bcc recipient line of your email and address your letter to Senator (don't put thier name, just Senator)

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

The deluxe way would be to send each Senator an individual email.

Since members here represent only a very small minority of those who will be harmed by the passage of SB 978, I urge you to spread the word. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, other forums, neighbors, friends, family, church, etc.

It's unclear if the antis are making the same letter writing efforts but it's best to assume they are. I realize you might feel burnt out on this effort already but I believe it's making a difference and we might actually have a chance at preventing the worst of all these bills (maybe even SB978) from being passed. Good luck and thank you for everything you have done so far.

 

[nammac]

Last Ditch Effort To Oppose SB 978:

We have been blessed with perfect letter writing weather. As a last ditch effort to influence the Senate Judiciary Committee to vote no on SB 978, I am spreading this request around to send last minute letters to the Senate Judiciary Committee members.
The easy way is to use this link:
Votility
Note: This will send an email to all the legislators I would suggest changing the subject title.

A better way would be to copy and paste these emails in the bcc recipient line of your email and address your letter to Senator (don't put thier name, just Senator)

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

The deluxe way would be to send each Senator an individual email.

Since members here represent only a very small minority of those who will be harmed by the passage of SB 978, I urge you to spread the word. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, other forums, neighbors, friends, family, church, etc.

It's unclear if the antis are making the same letter writing efforts but it's best to assume they are. I realize you might feel burnt out on this effort already but I believe it's making a difference and we might actually have a chance at preventing the worst of all these bills (maybe even SB978) from being passed. Good luck and thank you for everything you have done so far.

^^^Agreed 100%, we need a final push, I believe this is going to be voted on tomorrow in the Judicary Committee... Lets flood them with emails so they understand that clear thinking Oregonians don't want more regulation or government in our lives!!!

 

[arakboss]

As amended, SB 978 will outright BAN possession of 80% lowers and firearms manufactured from them with a felony crime if convicted of possession! I don't personally own any such items, but those of you who do should be aware of this.

My understanding is that if the unfinished receiver/frame had a serial number placed on the product by a licensed manufacture in accordance with federal guidelines (referenced in the bill) then you could keep it. I am not sure many 80% products fit that description but it would pretty well defeat the purpose of buying an 80% receiver (imho).

 

[arakboss]

It does sound like they do want to treat "unfinished frame or receiver" as a firearm for any new purchases, banning homemade gunsmithing. I wonder if Home Depot is going to get into the NICS background check system?

Here is an example of an unfinished receiver.

View attachment 563943

It will apply to existing firearms and receivers/frames you possess as well. There is no grandfather clause in this bill. There will be a bunch of people that possess firearms with out serial numbers and are oblivious that they are now committing a felony crime. And there is no path for them to remedy the situation other then destroying the receiver or frame of the illegal firearm. Whether that was their intention with this bill or not is up for debate but that is the case so if it passes there is going to be a whole lotta of new felons on the block.

 

[arakboss]

Section 16 of the bill:
I have to read it thru again, but it sounds like it is banning 100% plastic gun under the definition of "Undetectable firearm". Otherwise it would need a "Security Exemplar" to indicate it is a gun. It refers to federal law 18 U.S. Code § 922 as the definition (quoted below). This is unneeded as there is already a federal law covering it since 1988 (Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988. All "plastic guns must contain a "Security Exemplar"). The basis of the law was a result of fear by gun control advocates and a mythical Hollywood created Glock 7.

Never mind the mass hysteria that ended up not being true about "plastic firearms"; they can be seen in xrays and body scanners without issue. And are large and bulky to try and conceal, or otherwise unsafe to fire.

And the use of the phrase "Downloadable firearm" is also a misnomer. People have been able to do that for years. It's call "blueprints", never mind the 1st amendment issues surrounding it. It speaks to a lack of understanding of the subject.

Serialization is also a current law. You cannot sell your home-made gun to anyone else without serialization (18 U.S.C. 923(i)). Redundant. And this is besides the point that Law Enforcement hasn't really ever solved a crime by tracing firearms, other than an "huh, that's interesting".

I am not sure what the phrase ""A piece of material that has solely had its chemical composition altered" means.

If they really are concerned about "downloadable" or 80% guns, then make it a crime for a prohibited person to be in possession if they have intent to move it to 81%.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 U.S. Code § 922
(C)the term "Security Exemplar" means an object, to be fabricated at the direction of the Attorney General, that is—
handgun; and Attorney General shall promulgate regulations to permit the manufacture, importation, sale, shipment, delivery, possession, transfer, or receipt offirearms previously prohibited under this subparagraph that are as detectable as a "Security Exemplar" which contains 3.7 ounces of material type 17–4 PH stainless steel, in a shape resembling a handgun, or such lesser amount as is detectable in view of advances in state-of-the-art developments in weapons detection technology.

I don't believe that SB 978 as written, allows for the serial number to be added by the possessor. The federal guidelines they want followed for serializing of the firearm or unfinished receiver/frame is the same that manufactures and importers have to use now. It doesn't list a pathway for that to be done by the possessor after the fact. It would prove pointless anyways because it would not allow for the firearm to be traced, which is what they want.

 

[nammac]

It will apply to existing firearms and receivers/frames you possess as well. There is no grandfather clause in this bill. There will be a bunch of people that possess firearms with out serial numbers and are oblivious that they are now committing a felony crime. And there is no path for them to remedy the situation other then destroying the receiver or frame of the illegal firearm. Whether that was their intention with this bill or not is up for debate but that is the case so if it passes their is going to be a whole lotta of new felons on the block.

More reason for many to stand up against the tyrants!

 

[bunnybunny]

It will apply to existing firearms and receivers/frames you possess as well. There is no grandfather clause in this bill. There will be a bunch of people that possess firearms with out serial numbers and are oblivious that they are now committing a felony crime. And there is no path for them to remedy the situation other then destroying the receiver or frame of the illegal firearm. Whether that was their intention with this bill or not is up for debate but that is the case so if it passes there is going to be a whole lotta of new felons on the block.

The way I am reading the law is that homemade firearms with serial numbers will not be illegal under this bill so long as they comply with federal guidelines- Name, City, State, SN, Model, Caliber (same as NFA inscription). The bill does not require you to register your homemade firearm.

Transferring an 80% receiver after this bill would be a felony or turning one into an actual firearm. However, simply possessing an unserialized firearm is a misdemeanor. As long as you don't say "I milled this from an 80% receiver", then the burden of proof on manufacture, transfer, or import is on the government (felony). Keeping your mouth shut would result in a misdemeanor. Ridiculous as always, but another good lesson in say nothing other than identifying yourself and refuse a search without probable cause.

 

[arakboss]

The way I am reading the law is that homemade firearms with serial numbers will not be illegal under this bill so long as they comply with federal guidelines- Name, City, State, SN, Model, Caliber (same as NFA inscription). The bill does not require you to register your homemade firearm.

Transferring an 80% receiver after this bill would be a felony or turning one into an actual firearm. However, simply possessing an unserialized firearm is a misdemeanor. As long as you don't say "I milled this from an 80% receiver", then the burden of proof on manufacture, transfer, or import is on the government (felony). Keeping your mouth shut would result in a misdemeanor. Ridiculous as always, but another good lesson in say nothing other than identifying yourself and refuse a search without probable cause.

I guess it depends on your interpretations. This is the way I read it:

First we have some definitions,

"(b) 'Unserialized firearm' means a firearm that does not bear a
serial number in accordance with the procedures for the serialization
of a firearm in 18 U.S.C. 923(i) and all regulations issued under the
authority of 18 U.S.C. 923(i), including but not limited to 27 C.F.R.
478.92.
This is means a firearm that has been serialized by a licensed dealer according to 18 U.S.C 923(i) and 27 C.F.R. 478.92 and applies to licensed manufactures and importers. No room in these regs for homebuilders or commercially made firearms made without a serial number (e.g. old firearms)

"(c) 'Untraceable firearm' means an unserialized downloadable
firearm or an unserialized firearm that has been manufactured, assembled
or produced using an unfinished frame or receiver.
This means downloadable firearm (previously defined in SB 978 as 3D printed type firearms) or any other unserialized firearm ever made with a receiver that started out with an unfinished receiver or frame. All old firearms that were manufactured without a serial number would have started with an unfinished receiver or frame. (See Def below)

"(13)(a) 'Unfinished frame or receiver' means a partially completed
frame or lower receiver consisting of a blank, casting or machined
body that:
"(A) Requires further machining or molding to be used as part of
a functional firearm; and
"(B) Is designed and intended to be used in the assembly of a
functional firearm.
Again, every firearm ever made would have been started with an unfinished receiver or frame based on this definition.


"(2) A person who knowingly possesses, manufactures, assembles,
causes to be manufactured or assembled, imports into this state, offers
for sale, sells or transfers an untraceable firearm commits a Class B
felony.
No misdemeanor here.


"(b) 'Undetectable firearm' means a firearm that is functional when
in a form that is less detectable than a security exemplar when
scanned by a metal detector calibrated and operated to detect a security
exemplar.
"(3) A person who knowingly possesses an undetectable firearm
commits a Class A misdemeanor.
The misdemeanor charge is only for possessing an undetectable firearm as described above. All charges related to unserialized, downloadable firearms or unfinished receivers/frames are felonies Class B or C, mostly Class B.

I understand the reasoning for them wanting firearms serialized by licensed dealers according to regulations 18 U.S.C. 923(i) & 27 C.F.R. 478.92. I don't agree with it but I understand it. Imagine if SB 978 allowed the possessor to add their own serial number with no registration. There would be no way to trace that serial number and identification info because no manufacture has records of that firearm being produced and no FFL has transferred that firearm to you. There is a useful purpose for adding a serial number if a home built firearm is transferred through an FFL because the FFL would have that transfer info on record with a serial number connected with the seller and the buyer.

I would love to be wrong but nothing in SB 978 points towards allowing possessors to serialize their own firearms and it would accomplish little to nothing if they did allow for that. I am open to a different interpretation based on the language in the bill.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

The FOURTH Amendment to this bill was just published after Midnight.

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2019R1/Downloads/ProposedAmendment/15449

 

[arakboss]

The FOURTH Amendment to this bill was just published after Midnight.

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2019R1/Downloads/ProposedAmendment/15449

It looks like they added a sign requirement for public buildings that prohibit firearms.

They clarified their intent to ban firearms that are unserialized from the manufacturer, say bye bye to your old guns without a serial number and still no provision to add serial number to these firearms:
"(b) 'Untraceable firearm' means a firearm other than an antique
firearm for which the sale or distribution chain, from a licensed
retailer to the point of first retail sale, cannot be traced by a law
enforcement agency by means of a serial number affixed to the
firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer in accord-
ance with 18 U.S.C. 923(i) and all regulations issued under the au-
thority of 18 U.S.C. 923(i), including but not limited to 27 C.F.R. 478.92.

They removed parking areas from public spaces where you will be prohibited from concealed carry if public building bans firearm.

They have given us 90 days after sessions adjournment for Act to take effect. How generous of them.

They removed the idiotic downloadable firearms language and replaced it with specific language that will attempt to ban 3D firearms.

It appears the changes from Amend3 to Amend4 are trying to address complaints we have raised but the bill is still awful.

Edit: it appears they also removed "a city" as a place that could prohibit firearms in public buildings.

 

[arakboss]

It looks like they added a sign requirement for public buildings that prohibit firearms.

They clarified their intent to ban firearms that are unserialized from the manufacturer, say bye bye to your old guns without a serial number and still no provision to add serial number to these firearms:
"(b) 'Untraceable firearm' means a firearm other than an antique
firearm for which the sale or distribution chain, from a licensed
retailer to the point of first retail sale, cannot be traced by a law
enforcement agency by means of a serial number affixed to the
firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer in accord-
ance with 18 U.S.C. 923(i) and all regulations issued under the au-
thority of 18 U.S.C. 923(i), including but not limited to 27 C.F.R. 478.92.

They removed parking areas from public spaces where you will be prohibited from concealed carry if public building bans firearm.

They have given us 90 days after sessions adjournment for Act to take effect. How generous of them.

They removed the idiotic downloadable firearms language and replaced it with specific language that will attempt to ban 3D firearms.

It appears the changes from Amend3 to Amend4 are trying to address complaints we have raised but the bill is still awful.

Edit: it appears they also removed "a city" as a place that could prohibit firearms in public buildings.

The fact that they made attempts at resolving some of the issues raised probably means this is going to pass.

 

[nammac]

Expect further infringement of your constitutional rights today....

 

[nammac]

They have given us 90 days after sessions adjournment for Act to take effect. How generous of them.

What? No Emergency!?!?!

This means it can be forced to a ballot initiative, if enough signatures get gathered...

 

[bunnybunny]

What? No Emergency!?!?!

This means it can be forced to a ballot initiative, if enough signatures get gathered...

Unlikely considering the issue.

There isn't a registration option for the 80% converted to 100%. I would expect this to fail in the courts without even addressing the 2A argument. All of my legally registered SBRs will felonies "just because", and will not have any option to register them. Even the 9th court will strike that down, because it constitutes taking without just compensation.

It's a good sign they have to keep making amendments before they even vote on it.

 

[Knebel]

so am I follow this correctly that even serialized home build firearms are gonna be illegal? even the ones already made? What if they are serialized according to atf rules, wouldntw they be trackable if they have the mfg on it and a serial (mfg=individuals name)? But wait, it talks about licensed retailers/manufacturer.... well an 80% is not a firearm and an individual is not a licensed manufacturer or retailer. And there isn't a law that prohibits individual from manufacturing for own use!? I had my 80%s engraved by the manufacturer so that should be good I guess!?

 

[arakboss]

so am I follow this correctly that even serialized home build firearms are gonna be illegal? even the ones already made? What if they are serialized according to atf rules, wouldntw they be trackable if they have the mfg on it and a serial (mfg=individuals name)?

They need to be serialized from the manufacturer. This was my interpretation of previous amendments and they clarified it with amendment 4. No grandfathering, no provision to apply serial number for existing firearms owned. It sucks!