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SB 941 Already Working

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Deebow, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. Deebow

    Deebow Portland Well-Known Member

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    http://www.katu.com/news/local/Port...gun-charges-after-traffic-stop-311475611.html

    Matthew+Polk+Green+mugshots.jpg

    Officers arrested 21-year-old Javonni Matthew on several charges, including felon in possession of a firearm, first-degree forgery, possession of Oxycodone and a probation violation.

    Kyle Polk, 21, was also violating probation. He faces felon in possession of a firearm and possession of a loaded firearm.

    A third passenger, 32-year-old David Green Jr., was booked on gun charges and possession of Oxycodone.


    I wonder if when they "transferred" their guns, they got a background check? Someone should hurry up and congratulate Floyd and Ginny on the awesome job they did "getting guns off the streets."

    :s0140:
     
  2. Foreverlost

    Foreverlost South of LesbianVille, OR. Active Member

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    who has the guns now?was there a BGC upon transfer even if to a LEO?

    Foreverlost,
     
  3. Hayshaker

    Hayshaker Irrigon Active Member

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    OF Course the LEO's did a quick BGC. To bad they had to wait until 941 passed before getting caught. ;);) Floyd and Ginny probably drinking a big toast. They are _)(*&^%$#@ T
     
  4. NSDQ

    NSDQ NW Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    Heres the interesting part you fail to see though. Now that they are arrested for illegally being in possession of a firearm, the police are now able to arrest the person who sold them the firearm without going through a background check. Essentially a straw dealer or another felon and you can continue to chase up the ladder. Prior to SB 941 if I sold a firearm to someone who was a felon, It was nearly impossible to be arrested for a crime. As long as you don't ask questions you can't be held liable. Before SB 941 you didn't even have to ask for ID. I could sell you a gun no questions asked. And you could easily be a felon. Now selling a gun holds you accountable to who's hands its ended up in unless you went through a legal process which absolves you of legal prosecution.

    This law was always about targeting straw dealers. Enterprising individuals who wanted to make a profit off the used gun market but had no qualms with criminals ending up with guns.

    So in an ironic twist. You're actually right. SB 941 is working. Someone is going to get a knock on their door for selling these felons guns.
     
  5. Foreverlost

    Foreverlost South of LesbianVille, OR. Active Member

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    if arrested in "Lame" County those three would be out of the county jail before the ink was dry. No money for little crimes committed.

    Another DA just left "Lame" County, no funding for that position.

    Foreverlost,
     
  6. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The section of 941 requiring a BGC doesn't go into effect until Aug 9th.
     
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  7. thirtycal

    thirtycal Camas, WA Active Member

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    Seriously? You're not thinking this through.

    It's possible the gun transferred hands privately through many legal but undocumented transactions prior to it being used in a crime. You're assuming that by finding the name of the last registered owner, you have identified who last sold the firearm. That is absolutely not true since it would have been legal for that firearm to have been privately sold (face to face) any number of times during it's life after the last 'documented' (registered) owner.

    So no matter how much you wish your argument were true, it's simply not - it's patently false, and this whole concept of 'closing the loophole' does nothing to prevent crime or help crimes get solved. Nothing. All it does is make it more difficult for good guys (i.e., those who follow rules) to acquire/collect the items they have a constitutionally protected right to acquire and collect.

    -Thirtycal
     
  8. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    It was illegal for felons to posses guns prior to 941,and the passage of 941 did nothing to change that. How does a another law make it any more or less legal? And by the way, what you're talking about is tracking guns, and that is called registration.
     
  9. NSDQ

    NSDQ NW Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    Actually it does. Because over 90 percent of these criminals are completely idiotic. Their cell phone records quite clearly create a back link to the person that sold them the firearm. In many cases the individuals who sold them the firearm did so "legally" under the concept. You fail to take into account basic detective work.

    My old neighbor made quite a decent living for almost 3 years by selling firearms privately through his digital ads on armslist. He quite proudly announced that the loop holes of the system allowed him to sell firearms to anyone as long as he made sure that there was no evidence that he was aware that they are a criminal. He simply required every buyer to sign a sheet of paper that stated that they were not a criminal, were not a mental patient. This protected him in case the criminal buyers committed a crime and it was traced back to him.

    I found this profoundly alarming. That this individual was making a profit by putting guns into the hands of criminals but while doing so legally.

    Technically you can do this right now. I could probably make a fortune selling guns to criminals and still be protected by the law as long as I'm careful not to ask any questions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  10. ocarolan

    ocarolan Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    NSDQ is partially correct. It's possible for police to identify the original purchaser. But if that individual is deceased or unavailable, it's non-trivial to identify subsequent transferees... Yes it's possible the records are still held somewhere but police would need to know the state and dealer.

    Furthermore one easy workaround is for the straw dealer to grind off or edit the serial number prior to sale. Many purchasers may not notice it's been altered.

    Alternatively, IIRC firearms sold prior to GCA '64 are "unpapered" and mostly impossible to track.
     
  11. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    Registration leads to confiscation!!!!!

    Go after the friggin criminals not the law abiding!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
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  12. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    This is the typical controllers argument. The poor perp was simply misunderstood and was actually a choir boy until he was overcome by the evil gun. What a bunch of hogwash!
     
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  13. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    But, you see, I sold all my firearms on April 1st 2015 with no documentation required. So if any of them were to come into question I'm free and clear.
     
  14. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    You expect these same criminals to be using phones that aren't stolen???
    Sounds like your old neighbor may have been breaking the law already by doing this.
    Technically, you can't legally do this for the purpose of making a profit right now. At least without a dealer license. Do you or your old neighbor have one?
     
  15. NSDQ

    NSDQ NW Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    We live in a digital age. Modern equipment allows you to do a lot of things. You can thank the Patriot act. Digital phone records being what they are its quite easy to triangulate. Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, and T- Mobile provide GPS location history. Mobile connections wireless internet can also triangulate locations.

    Geo cached GPS is common. I'll even entertain your theory that the phone is stolen. Phone gets reported stolen. Phone company geo caches the GPS location to an address for long periods of time. That address does not match the owner.

    You're also under the assumption that they even bother to use stolen phones. A majority of them are cheap cricket phones. You can clearly find the buyers/sellers through phone and internet history with a simple warrant. There are address databases that even private investigators have access to which cross reference residences. Pretty easy to put together what two people are communicating with who through phone records.

    Truth of the matter is most criminals are idiots to begin with or they wouldn't be in the crime business. This means they aren't intelligent enough to use encryption. Which means telephone records can clearly trace a link between buyers and sellers. The same methodology is used for petty drug dealers.

    Every saturday in chinatown guns are picked up from metal detectors at bars and clubs on weekends. This is why you see 3 armed security guards outside those small 50 capacity clubs. None of those gun owners that get confiscated have a conceal carry and the other half end up having criminal records. 90 percent of them are gang affiliated. None of those guns end up being traced back to direct sales from a gun shop and the owner that had them confiscated from. All of them come from private sales. Most of them are 3-4 links down the chain. A law abiding civilian buys a gun from a gun shop Resells the firearm in a private sale its resold 2-3 times until it gets into the hands of someone who cares more about making a sale than following the law. Ends up reselling it to one of these knuckleheads. Needless to say - it takes about 2 hours of phone calls to link back all of the guns confiscated.

    In downtown portland down by SW 3rd ave where all the gold buyers are is the central hub for gun sales. Most of those guy buy gold sight unseen as well as private sales on guns. They don't care about where it comes from as long as the serial number is clean. A lot of those guys are quite coy. They advertise to buy bullets and end up fielding a bunch of phone calls about if they want to buy guns.

    Think about their customer base... Folks who have gold to fence and want cash right away. A lot of those guys end up buying guns from them.

    Eventually they end up in the wrong hands and the cycle continues.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  16. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Your argument is all about secondary actions and finding the original owner of the gun, and is illustrating your desire for registration. Your end point seems to be that registration will make tracking easier and reduce crime. But there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that your assertion is true. Look at Chicago, with some of the countries toughest gun laws. The truth is, that criminals will commit crimes, regardless of your efforts to control honest people. You keep talking about how tough it is to be a good detective, but you don't say a thing about preventing loss of life, and that is what makes your arguments weak and self serving.
     
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  17. Hayshaker

    Hayshaker Irrigon Active Member

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    You got to be kidding ~~ They WILL NOT tell on a fellow gang /druggie or what ever you want to call them
     
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  18. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    You make a lot of assumptions about what others are assuming.

    Edit: Quoted wrong post. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  19. Creep

    Creep Portland Member

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    Okay, so, you have a gun and a suspect, how do you prove when the deal happened? A text message isn't going to have serial numbers attached to it, it's flimsy as a tin shack in a wind storm, and won't stand up any better. It's not proof of a meeting, or a transaction, simply that a conversation took place.

    The problem with laws like SB 941 is that they require either documentation or one party willing to sell both parties out in order to effectively prosecute. If I can say I bought the gun I was caught with before the cutoff date, and avoid both an extra charge and getting the local illegal gun dealer arrested, why would I out us?

    The saddest part, is some people call laws like this "common sense". o_O
     
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  20. jefe

    jefe Portland Active Member

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    you probably aren't going to make a fortune unless you sell in volume. most criminals aren't willing to purchase a $1000 1911, or a $900 sig. no, they'd only purchase a $150 hi-point (which they'll refer to as "glock" when amongst their peers).
     
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