Saw a S&W Model 69 today

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by PaulB47, Jun 3, 2016.

  1. PaulB47

    PaulB47
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  2. ZS27

    ZS27
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    Surprisingly if you compare them to the n frame 44 magnum the forcing cone is much tougher and biggeron the L than on the n frame first thing I would do though is have internal lock parts removed
     
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  3. ThemGunsThough

    ThemGunsThough
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    Buy it and offer her a spa day. Works for me.
     
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  4. orygun

    orygun
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    I'll bring this thread back from the dead because I played touchie-feelie with a Model 69 yesterday and it really has my wheels turning.
    I'm semi-actively in the market for a 686+ to replace the one I stupidly sold a few years ago. I really want more power than a 357, and except for that, the 4" barreled one was exactly what I wanted. I figgered it made up for the "lower" power by adding one more round. I loaded it hot and shot the heck out of it. Then I got distracted by a 10mm...

    Taurus was close with the Tracker 5 shot 41 Mag (one of my most favorite rounds), but they weren't easy to find and well, Taurus.
    Building a 5 shot 44 Mag on the same frame as a 357 feels great in the hand. Nice heft. Not too heavy, not too light. (it looks light) I wish it didn't have the lock on it, but I've never had a lock equipped S&W give me any trouble.

    Anybody shoot one of these? Or am I going to have to buy one just to check it out?

    WoooHooooo! I just checked the link in the OP and there's a $50 rebate if I buy a gun before the first of the year. Hmmm.
     
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  5. ron

    ron
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    The 69 and new model 66 are a different design. It has a 2 piece barrel/shroud
    like their Scandium frame 329PD and 340PD. Ball-Detent lock up. I don't think this is a bad
    thing from what I have read they are more accurate? I have been looking at the 69 and new 66
    for some time now. The new 66 is a 4.25 inch barrel built to handle full power 125 grain
    magnum loads.:rolleyes: Anybody have one of these Model 66 I would appreciate your feedback. :oops:
    Had a 4" 66 years ago wish I still had it.:confused: I like the idea of the new one built to handle
    lighter weight bullet full power magnum loads.:D
     
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  6. orygun

    orygun
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    Way back when (the 80's for me) I had a Model 65 4". Shot a bunch of 125gr thru it and later learned that it was good I'd passed it along because I would have eventually wrecked it. The memory of that gun is the reason I picked up that 686+ years later even though I'd switched to 158gr by then. The fact that the L frame is much more forgiving than a K frame when shooting magnum rounds was a huge bonus.

    I noticed the different barrel and then remembered the articles talked a bit about this feature. Forgot all about the ball detent. I don't know if the design of the barrel is any improvement besides the ability to set the gap correctly, but I think that's a good thing. Hot loads thru a sloppy barrel/cylinder gap can cause all kinds of issues and none are good.

    I wonder if the 44 Mag stretches the capabilities of the L frame like the 357 does in a K frame? That's an awful lot in a little. There is the Ruger 44 Special GP100 and you know it will be tough as can be. A big turn off for me is that it's only a 3 inch. The 44 Special is ok, but I wouldn't likely buy a 38 Special when I can have a 357 Mag, would I?

    I darn near stopped on the way home and picked it up tonite.
     
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  7. KKG

    KKG
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    I've been looking for the individual who started the story about the 125gr. .357 Magnum loads being bad for the "K" Frame Smith and Wesson Guns? I have to call it a story because it sure isn't the Truth. Just wondering; anybody got an idea who?
     
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  8. orygun

    orygun
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    It's no story that high quantity shooting of magnum rounds can crack the K frames forcing cone.
    I may have assumed it was the lighter bullets that cause the problem based on what I learned with the 357 Maximum. In the Ruger SRM the light load (158gr) caused a small amount of flame cutting of the top strap. Different deal.

    The forcing cone problem is the reason the L frame was developed.
     
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  9. orygun

    orygun
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    I found a couple of pics to show what I mean. Obviously the one showing the crack is a neglected gun. K-L-forcing.jpg crack.jpg
     
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  10. KKG

    KKG
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    The Problem with the light weight .357 Magnum rounds was because Super Vel produced some very shoddy 125gr. Cartridges. I'm guessing that this is just another story that will never die but if it was true I'd be the owner of a whole bunch of "K" Frame Smith and Wesson .357 Magnums that should be in pieces. In 1976 I helped unpack 125 Model 19 Smith and Wessons for the Department I worked for. Four times a year each of those Guns had between 60 & 120 rounds of .357 Magnum Ammunition run through them because that was Department Policy. That's at least 2400 rounds of Magnums and Twice that a or more for some. Ten years later those Guns were traded in and none of them was unserviceable. And all the other Model 19s that have seen thousands of rounds of Magnums and are still out there don't count I suppose???
     
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  11. orygun

    orygun
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    Probably very similar to the early 1903 Springfields. Some live, some don't.
     
  12. KKG

    KKG
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    Just what I figured. Another shooter who won't allow reality get in the way of an old story. Comparing those two things is like...

    Nope, I can't come up with a way to compare a major Production error(the early1903s) and a Problem that just doesn't exist with the Model 19s that ALL blow up or will if somebody shoots them with Magnums.
     
  13. ob1

    ob1
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    While I didn't have the exposure to the numbers of issue K's that you have mentioned, I {or my coworkers, that I knew of} never experienced any of the forcing cone damage described. This from the mid-seventies to the transition out, in the nineties.

    I've only recently heard of "flame cutting" ...but it was my assumption that was attributed to heavy use of 38 special +p loads with 125 gr. bullets in .357 frames, IE model 19 & 66's.
     
  14. KKG

    KKG
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    The issue of flame cutting is one that first became an problem when the .357 Maximum was introduced. To obtain the velocities advertised the Ammunition Companies were forced to use some extremely fast burning powders. The cartridge was, I believe, designed for use in a T-C Contender type Barrel which is a whole different ballgame from the Wheel Guns offered to the public by Ruger.

    The whole idea behind the Super Vel ammunition was Velocity and More Velocity and if possible even More Velocity! They were experimenting with the lighter Bullets and faster burning powders. Flame Cutting could also be an issue if the Barrel to Cylinder gap was too great. They also had Major Quality Issues. Hope that answers your question.
     
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  15. Captain O

    Captain O
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    While the S&W Model 69 isn't without merit, I own the heaver (and older) Model 58 in .41 Remington Magnum.

    It works.
     
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  16. ron

    ron
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    Flame cutting occurs in ANY magnum revolver. I can look at the top strap of used 29, 27, 19 revolvers
    and tell how many magnum rounds have been through it. I had a 6 inch 686 that I put tens of
    thousands of 125gr. magnum rounds through. You could see the groove cut in the top strap from the
    side of the revolver!:confused: I have read the 69 has a stronger forcing cone and cylinder than the
    N frame 29/629s. I have owned a dozen different 629s. Have owned several 357s 19, 66 ,686 and 627.
    :oops: The 69 is cool because it says "-44 Magnum-"and "Combat Magnum" on the barrel.

    My 629 and +686
    DSC00069.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  17. orygun

    orygun
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    It was an analogy. If Smith and Wesson didn't think it was an issue, we never would have seen the L frame....
     
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  18. KKG

    KKG
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    Your logic is still doesn't wash, because Smith and Wesson is still making "K" Frame .357 Magnum Firearms. If they were as BAD as you say Smith and Wesson certainly would have stopped Building such a product. The "L" Frame has its place in the lineup but it hasn't replaced the "K" by any stretch of the imagination.:):):)
     
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  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf
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    I think now the K-frame magnums (maybe all calibers?) are made with two piece barrels. They say it's so the frame isn't stressed on install.. their methods and materials leads to less failures now.
     
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  20. RVTECH

    RVTECH
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    True - being a K frame is not necessarily the problem - the beveled forcing cone was however and that has been resolved on the new models. Cracked forcing cones on early K frame .357s are reality but were most likely caused by hyper velocity 125 gr and lighter bullet loads being shot out of them - and lots of them. The bottom line is early K frame .357s should not be shot full house, light bullet weight ammo exclusively. If this is a need then a heavier framed .357 should be chosen. The K frame Smiths are undoubtedly some of the finest revolvers ever but have their limitations.
     
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