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Hi @PaulF .
At the time you called the cops the attempted but failed home invasion was no longer active. The guy had fled with apparently no harm done. So no surprise cops put finding the fleeing hit and run driver first priority. He had at least damaged cars and maybe also people. The fact that the guy you were chasing had just committed a hit and run doesn't change the legal situation. Even if it had been your own home he tried to invade, once he ran away that incident was legaly over. When you chased and followed him you became the aggressor in a new incident. And since he was in your neighborhood only because he was in the area when he crashed and fled, he presumably did not vandalize your car in some earlier visit. and would have been unlikely to be in your neighborhood again, so never would have posed any risk to your neighbors. Most likely the hit and run guy would have been caught without your help, at least if he had a license and wasnt in a stolen car. So you needn't pat yourself on the head over that. You were lucky the cops didn't arrest and cuff and search you just to keep you out of the way, since you obviously were at the least a wild card. And cops mostly don't like vigilantes.

You don't seem to understand what is and isn't self defense. Or the difference in status and perogatives between yourself and cops. My favorite book on this is the old classic In the Gravest Extreme, by Maasad Ayoob. A good concealed weapons course will spend huge amounts of time on this. Take your case to such a course and ask the instructor for his perspective.

If you held your distance so that it seemed the bad guy would not attack you without it being clear he was attacking you, that does muddy the waters. But you started off chasing him, and after he was too tired to run any more he might have felt he had no choice. At the best, you might, had you killed him, had a weak messy legal case for SD. And who knows how the jury would rule?

Please take a good course and get your CHP before running around with a concealed gun again. There are things in such courses you need to know.

As for whether you did the "right" thing...that's actually a lot more complicated than the issue of legal jeopardy. And all I've been talking about is legal jeopardy. Puck puck puck! (That's my mother hen noises. I can tell you're a good guy, and don't want you getting in trouble 'cause you got overexuberant.)

Unless you know all the parties personally and know the whole story, its hard to know who is or isn't the bad guy. For example, I once had a neighbor who said her boyfriend beat her and she had dumped him. Then at a block party I saw her with a new boyfriend, and she was doing everything she could to teach the new boy friend to beat her!!! He was younger and clearly confused . She was slapping his face too softly to be assault, but meant to be publically humiliating, calling him a weakling, making it obvious she wanted to be hit. That she would respect him and consider him a man only if he hit her. And it was totally obvious this young man had never hit a woman in his life, and was confused. And his being a little drunk didn't help. Not seeing this training first, if I saw him at some point beating her, I'd have assumed the young man was the bad guy. I woulda probably sent my dog in to break it up, and been willing to testify against the young man. (My dog was a good protection dog but also expert at breaking up fights between dogs or livestock by disciplining the aggressor/bigger critter by growling fiercely and hitting, not biting them with her teeth, as mother dogs do to discipline pups. In this sort if situation she would probably have started with a fake charge and ended the fight without getting closer than about six feet. Still a risk if one had a gun. Breaking up a beating like this is notoriously dangerous because the woman often turns on the rescuer.) But not after seeing her train young man to be a wife beater. Who exactly was the victim? Before that, I would have assumed that it was her. Now I would tend to think it was him. She might be the victim of a current beating. He might be the victim of having his character damaged by her, possibly permenently. Whatever, it was way more complex than I thought. And not anything I would put my dog at risk to intervene in. Just too complicated.
Wow just wow, not gonna get to long with my response but will say, someone who's already committed 2 felonies and has 0 sheets given about it l, isn't going to simply slink off, and call it a night.

While I was following him he went up to a couple garage doors and tried them (none opened) but he took it in stride and continued.

I originally stated he was high/drunk, insane or all of the above, had he happened upon someone's mom, grandma, or single mother with kids and gained access to inside their home, and decided to take the next step up to violence, murder, rape etc... I wouldn't feel OK knowing I'd had an opportunity to stop it when I did.


Guy was not "no longer a threat" just because he decided to move his bs further down the road.

As to your analogy of the woman "training guys to beat her" ive had mostly crazy Girlfriends, and have never raised a hand to one, nor would I.

I was raised by a single mother, and I had 3 sisters. I would and have interviened many times with guys that don't understand that you don't put hands on women.

The only exception to this would be a woman who is either armed, and trying great bodily harm on me. Or a woman hurting a female family member, or child, then I'm all for treating her like a man.

Short of that, this poor victim in your story could have left this crazy broad. And the poor victim that I "Stalked" could have easily called the police and said he felt threatened.

Why is it felons don't call the police?

Your logic is insane.

I've lived on both sides of the fence, have been in jail and gotten away with far more then I should have when I was young (not a felon or prohibited possessor) but I understand the mindset of criminals from a perspective most dint and likely never will.

If dude wants to change his life and fly straight more power to him, but until then he can keep his BS away from me, or not expect kid gloves while dealing with him.
 
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I would hazard a guess that a good number of self-defense situations begin with a "bad" decision -- in Kyle's case seeking to prevent barbarian hordes from burning down his town because the authorities couldn't stomach giving Trump a "win" by sending in the National Guard.
I still have an issue with the Rittenhouse case - why did his friends, who allowed him to take that AR15 into public, then let him be by himself facing the "barbarian hordes"
where where his so called friends?
I spent over 10 years in the military starting in '68- NEVER - NEVER did we ever leave a FNG out on perimeter by himself
back in the day, there were lots of 17 year old's with M16 in the Military, but NEVER left by themselves
 
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I still have an issue with the Rittenhouse case - why did his friends, who allowed him to take that AR15 into public, then let him be by himself facing the "barbarian hordes"
where where his so called friends?
I spent over 10 years in the military starting in '68- NEVER - NEVER did we ever leave a FNG out on perimeter by himself
back in the day, there were lots of 17 year old's with M16 in the Military, but NEVER left by themselves
For most of the night he was with --- can't recall his name right now but he was a combat vet. His testimony and assessment of Kyle was really good -- worth looking up. Anyway, just moments before the shootings, they got separated somehow, and the rest is history.
 
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Following someone is a real gray area. Can you imagine if a person could attack someone on the sidewalk just because they were going the same direction on the same side of the street, and call it self-defense?

Following someone at a distance (100 to 300 feet) without trying to make contact with them is very hard to label as aggression, but I can see where a prosecutor or especially a defense attorney would try to make that claim. Quite frankly, following someone at a distance while contacting (or trying to contact, given the poor performance of 911 in some areas lately) should be protected by affirmative defense (a legal term meaning: A new fact or set of facts that operates to defeat a claim even if the facts supporting that claim are true. Observing a person from public property or right-of-way should be shielded from liability, as long as it isn't stalking or other illegal act. This is to protect the "good witness" should there be a need for testimony.

The fact that freedom of movement on a public property or right-of-way without having a direct interaction can be considered an act of aggression is frightening.
 
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Rafael is by far the best TMNT! So much so he’s tattooed on my body. He’s my hero. Hahaha
:rolleyes:
MichelangeloTurtle.jpg
 
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So when they get done with the stores where do they loot next?
Start with the houses with the nice cars in the driveway, the gunfree zones signs in the neighborhood, and the Biden signs in the front yard.

But just remember if they victimize you or anyone in your neighborhood they are safe as soon as they step out of your yard, if they rape your wife or child they are safe as soon as they zip up their pants, attack you with a baseball bat, its over after they wipe your blood of the bat, and theyre free to continue down the road........ at least according to some on NWFA.
 

ma96782

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I agree, if I look out my window and someone is stealing my chainsaw or truck, I can't shoot out the window
but if I inject myself into the situation and the intruder does not turn and walk away without my property, then the situation is different
if some one is taking my $800 Stihl chain saw out of the barn, I'm not staying in the house (motion sensors)
if such an intruder drops the chain saw and walks past me - then I let him be on his way
by Washington state law, I am allowed to take my Mossberg Shockwave out to defend my property, one can defend "real property" on your own land up here

no aggressive threat, but an angry old guy with a short barreled shotgun tends to discourage intruders without actual violence
For me, I have no problem with protecting property, while armed.

So then......
Not starting an argument....
Just thinking out loud (since the A.A. case).

How stuff ends.....might just/could be/would be depending on if you had the SG up at your shoulder/pointing at the suspect. But more so....say if you were of a different race vs the culprit.

In the rjmt case. Say that the guy tells the news/police....
"Damm homeowner.....he confronted me with a loaded SG. I was in fear that he was gonna shoot me."

So maybe, shouldered or not.....perhaps the news media and community might just start with making it entirely into a racial issue.

And, some people might say/will probably say that you shouldn't have come upon the suspect/confronted the suspect with SG in hand. Just call 911 or only concealed handguns are acceptable. No signs of arms is permissible until the culprit shows that he is armed.

Really? And, WAIT, Wait, wait.....is it Monday already?

So anyway. Maybe, you might just find yourself behind the 8 ball.....ALL OF THE WAY.

Lastly......say if the culprit made a grab for the SG and you ended up killing him.

Yeah....the A.A. case has some lingering questions for me. For me, regardless of the race of the people involved.....the grab was made/attempted (that's in the court record).

______________________
______________________

So then (before the A.A. thread was closed)......a forum member commented that.....
You know good and well if it was YOU being chased by the armed Deliverance crew you’d not just STOP and comply.
Hummm..."armed Deliverance crew".....that certainly took a racist spin.

But......I don't know for sure....if racial epithets were ever stated (during the chase by the defendants) in the A.A. case. So really.....should I care about that race-baiting comment? Or just......

let-it-go.jpg

OK, Ok, ok....maybe "armed Deliverance crew" wasn't meant in a racist way?
_______________________
_______________________


Continuing on (sort of)......
Self-defense and when should someone submit.

And what about those past cases involving the REAL Police and the subject of, "resisting arrest"?

Awwwww.....STOP, Stop, stop. Don't go there. Because everyone KNOWS that the police are "systemically racist".

Rrrrright?

Aloha, Mark
 
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Longwalkhome

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Start with the houses with the nice cars in the driveway, the gunfree zones signs in the neighborhood, and the Biden signs in the front yard.

But just remember if they victimize you or anyone in your neighborhood they are safe as soon as they step out of your yard, if they rape your wife or child they are safe as soon as they zip up their pants, attack you with a baseball bat, its over after they wipe your blood of the bat, and theyre free to continue down the road........ at least according to some on NWFA.
Yep into the neighborhoods and if the cops are not stopping mass looting of the stores then will they stop it in the neighborhood?
 

Longwalkhome

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Not to worry, there's plenty of stores for them to keep looting. It's CA, ya know. That's a really big place with lots and lots of commercial property. Don't think stuff's gonna get real in podunkadunk, USA anytime soon.

As long as I don't run out a popcorn...
:s0093:
I read a great number of small businesses have closed over covid regulations. Like a lion tasting humans the mob is being fed free looting and once they taste it they can't quit eating it. Stores then the rich neighborhoods then our neighbors. Hopefully folks will stick together but it looks like they wont.
 
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Yep into the neighborhoods and if the cops are not stopping mass looting of the stores then will they stop it in the neighborhood?
Surely they'll stop it in the neighborhoods, I mean unless of course they're defunded or neutered like the left wants.

Or maybe they're busy looking for a real criminal threat like a jaywalking suspect or someone not wearing a mask in the store.
 

OldBroad44

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Start with the houses with the nice cars in the driveway, the gunfree zones signs in the neighborhood, and the Biden signs in the front yard.

But just remember if they victimize you or anyone in your neighborhood they are safe as soon as they step out of your yard, if they rape your wife or child they are safe as soon as they zip up their pants, attack you with a baseball bat, its over after they wipe your blood of the bat, and theyre free to continue down the road........ at least according to some on NWFA.
Your portrayal of the event has changed. You were clearly hoping to attack the guy you were following and perform something like a citizens arrest. You had to actually be told by dispatch not to. This is the first you said anything about the bad guy attempting to enter other homes. Very strange not to mention this, as if it was real and you told it to dispatch that would likely have changed your situation into attempted home invasions in progress and their top priority. Your graphic portrayal of a good guy having his wife raped in his own home in front of him and being legally unable to defend himself while bad guy attacks him with a bat is legally ridiculous and completely unrelated to the incident you portrayed initially. I repeat my advice--stop running around with a concealed weapon until you have taken a course and got your concealed license. You don't know enough to be carrying concealed yet.
 
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Not to worry, there's plenty of stores for them to keep looting. It's CA, ya know. That's a really big place with lots and lots of commercial property. Don't think stuff's gonna get real in podunkadunk, USA anytime soon.

As long as I don't run out a popcorn...
:s0093:
Yup totally a CA only problem, I mean its not like they would ever torch car lots in WI, or burn restaurants here in Eugene, and other places.

Oh wait they already did all that? And more?

Well surely they all learned their lesson after all the harsh punishments handed down for their actions.

Oh 99% of them weren't punished at all. Weeeel 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


Maybe they've all grown as people and see the error of their ways
 

Longwalkhome

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Surely they'll stop it in the neighborhoods, I mean unless of course they're defunded or neutered like the left wants.

Or maybe they're busy looking for a real criminal threat like a jaywalking suspect or someone not wearing a mask in the store.
I wouldn't bet on police protection because the jab mandate is causing a lot of cops to quit. Politicians run the cops so who will be protected?
 
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