Sandbags

[Arkarayne]

Whats your opinion of sandbag defenses? and does anyone know local (Oregon) sources for empty bags to pick em up?

All the researching i've done says even 12 inches (1 bag wide) will protect you from 99% of handgun/rifle rounds, so a 2-wide wall would be ample defense from anything other then explosives.

Light-blocking tarps and paints would preserve the walls too.

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[RavenLunatic]

You're going to need about 500 sandbags to build one fighting position. And you've got to have something to fill them all with.

I order mine online.

<broken link removed>

 

[Arkarayne]

I know, I've run the numbers, It'd be about 18-20 bags/foot for a 3 foot straight wall. custom defense positions i'm still working on.
There's also enough quarrys, sand-and-gravel companies, mounds of dirt, etc around here, SHTF filling shouldn't be a problem.
(not letting my engineering schooling go to waste haha)

actually i'd found a cheaper online spot.
http://earthaidusa.com/empty-sandbags.aspx
Was hoping for a local spot, avoid shipping costs and all.

 

[RavenLunatic]

Thanks for the link. I'll have to compare their prices when shipping is included.

Shipping is generally not too bad, since the empty bags are very light weight.

Wish I could help you out with a local source, though. Good luck in your search.

ETA:
At EarthAid 500 sandbags is $100, and shipping is $19.13 via FedEx.

 

[Arkarayne]

EarthAid
16.15 total for 50 bags
115.67 total for 500 bags
230.56 total for 1000 bags
251.13 total for 1200 bags
e-Sandbags
27.45 total for 50 bags
197.50 total for 500 bags
359.75 total for 1000 bags
423.75 total for 1200 bags
(to Medford at least)

(EarthAid wins. higher UV rating, and cheaper.)
...I'm good with numbers and research. heh.

 

[Gunner3456]

How would that compare in cost to railroad ties which last longer?

If you build a tight wall of railroad ties, and then build another wall in front of it with 2x4's laid flat (wall 3 1/2" thick) and allow a space of at least 2" between them almost no rifle can penetrate it. The first wall is sacrificial. It flattens and distorts and/or upsets the bullet which then barely damages the railroad ties. You could do the same in front of your sandbags. You need that airspace to allow the bullet to upset rather than drill.

Airspace - a double hit is also very effective. For example, two 1/8 steel plates are more effective than one 1/4 plate, I was told. The 1/4 plate will allow the bullet to retain much of its shape and poke a hole, but the first 1/8 plate will distort the bullet as much as the 1/4 plate (initial impact) and upset it, so that the second can stop it.

Can you believe that no one has ever asked me why this wall is so thick in the two years we've lived here, and it's in the front entry - the front downstairs? That's a G23, PF-9 + blinds and a window frame, for a feeling of the thickness.

 

[Arkarayne]

~10 inches thick? you got some steel under drywall or somethin'?

well, wood outside, sand or sand/insulation mix (and some good sealant) 1/4in plate under the drywall (or 1/8th-drywall-1/8th and some nice eggshell white paint) ...could work.

(everything i've read drywall might as well be air in respect to a bullet)

 

[Gunner3456]

Good guess on the thickness.

Cavity design is proprietary - spent a lot of dough on consulting and building, and I don't want someone knowing how it's rated. No offense please...

Edit. I feel guilty. It's two sets of things with insulation to code between. The outer set of things progressively slow and distort and upset a bullet. The inner layers would stop it if it made it that far. It's layers of things that work the same way I described above. Successive hits distort, upset, break, etc. Anyone could do it with just what I've said so far. Just add more.

 

[Arkarayne]

I'd be surprized if you did tell me, no offense taken. stuff like that just interests me engineerically (not a word i know). But congrats on the effort.

I can't do that in an apartment, and dont have my own place yet to modify, which is why i like sand.

 

[Gunner3456]

I'd be surprized if you did tell me, no offense taken. stuff like that just interests me engineerically (not a word i know). But congrats on the effort.

I can't do that in an apartment, and dont have my own place yet to modify, which is why i like sand.

Well look again. I got a twang of conscience because this is a place where we share ideas. If you look at all of the posts, you'll be able to duplicate it to any degree you want.

Apartment? Railroad ties? Sandbags? The exterior walls will distort and upset a bullet. Anything you put inside of that with a small airspace will at least stop small rifle and handgun, for sure.

I think you just need a couple of zones - a couple of places, one on each side of the dwelling to hunker down if it's temporary.

 

[Arkarayne]

Aye, I've got ideas too. but the setup of the place allows for alot of defensive ground, even then I'm more inclined to defend out in the country at our parent's place. wide view, uphill, lots of defensive options.

 

[Gunner3456]

Family is good and country is good. I have a concern about country in that we have no real close neighbors. We have to defend ourselves and I wonder if roaming bands would try to attack a lone house as much or more as one in a neighborhood.

 

[Arkarayne]

Well that is one drawback, but it's one matter for those bands to come out to where you are, second, there's 2 types of people, organized and not. unorganized people will either run or get hit after a few shots.