Washington Sale of AR style semiauto rifle to WA residents by non resident?

[Mr Smith]

I'm offering no legal advice so take with a grain of salt...but if your guns were to be stripped lowers only...and you happen to sell the remaining parts to the gun in a separate transaction 5 mins later... it would not be an "assault weapon" per WA i-1639 BS. IIRC stripped lowers are not a pistol or rifle semi auto, or otherwise until they are assembled. They are just classified as a "firearm" until the rest of the parts are attached to it. (note this only applies to AR's that were originally purchased as a stripped lower.)

So if your buyer is not against assembling the weapon, I would imagine that may be a way around it...but I would consult one of the FFL members that are more well versed in the local firearms laws regarding that.

Otherwise a complete semi-auto rifle would be considered an "assault weapon" to WA and require FFL transfer, BG check, registration, sheriff/CLEO signoff, and mandatory waiting period just like a handgun does in WA state.

 

[nobamaplease]

Here's a scenario for ya - you're visiting (Driving) to Texas or Kansas or some other gun friendly state and you went to a gun show and saw a nice AR for a GREAT price from an private individual. You pull out cash and purchased the AR and asked about FFL transfer. The seller reply's "no need."

What do you do in this scenario? (The AR is in your hands)

1. Find FFL there to do the transfer under WA state laws.
2. Find FFL there and have him mail it to your FFL back home.
3. Ask for refund & return AR to seller.
4. Drive it home to your FFL to do the transfer.
5. Drive it home and call it good.
6. Other option - explain

I am sure this has never happened to anyone, but just a fun scenario to see what you would do, not what the law states (like posts above).

 

[Mr Smith]

Here's a scenario for ya - you're visiting (Driving) to Texas or Kansas or some other gun friendly state and you went to a gun show and saw a nice AR for a GREAT price from an private individual. You pull out cash and purchased the AR and asked about FFL transfer. The seller reply's "no need."

What do you do in this scenario? (The AR is in your hands)

1. Find FFL there to do the transfer under WA state laws.
2. Find FFL there and have him mail it to your FFL back home.
3. Ask for refund & return AR to seller.
4. Drive it home to your FFL to do the transfer.
5. Drive it home and call it good.
6. Other option - explain

I am sure this has never happened to anyone, but just a fun scenario to see what you would do, not what the law states (like posts above).

6. move to a free state and enjoy your new toy and newly rediscovered freedom.

 

[wired]

Any long guns can be transferred to anyone in any state, only hand guns (pistols) need to be transferred in the buyers state of residence.
If an WA buyer purchase from you in Idaho and Idaho laws don't require FFL transfer, you don't need an FFL dealer to complete the deal, only if it happens in Idaho!
If you drive to WA (Spokane) to sell, you need to go through an FFL licensed dealer to do the transfer. - best to have the buyer drive across the boarder to pick it up.
I'm going to Rathrum in a few days, what are you selling?

Just made that up on your own huh.

No. He cannot sell a rifle to a resident of another state directly even in his state. No rifle no shotgun, no pistol. It MUST go through a dealer either in WA or ID. and it doesnt matter if the seller and buyer are both willing to sidestep the law. They are both committing federal felonies. Its an interstate transfer and all interstate transfer have to go through a dealer. Most realistic option is transferring through a Washington dealer.

And no, State law does not trump federal law. State law can add to federal law but it cannot take away from federal law..

 

[jjfitch]

Learn and follow all the gun laws in your state of residence! PERIOD!

If shipping a firearm out of state the receiving FFL is responsible for following the laws there!

There is a lot of erroneous information and ill advised recommendations in this thread!

Let's all be responsible gun owners and vote all anti 2A politicians out of office!

Respectfully,

 

[Flymph]

As to my understanding, there is no BGC requirement with private sales in Idaho and rifles can be transferred regardless of which state the purchaser or seller is from on a federal basis. I'd say it is entirely dependent on state laws after that, so long as you abide by all laws and ordnance that apply to you and where you do the transaction you should be innocent of any violation that the other party or their locality may consider. Really, it would be the buyers' burden in your case, not your problem. Of course a case could be made now that you know what you may be doing is a violation of law/ordinance in some way.
Aka; what happens in Idaho, stays in Idaho.

I am not a lawyer, nor pretend to be one on TV. Your milage may vary...

PS, edit; just go to an FFL and ask the pertinent questions.

 

[Flymph]

Just made that up on your own huh.

No. He cannot sell a rifle to a resident of another state directly even in his state. No rifle no shotgun, no pistol. It MUST go through a dealer either in WA or ID. and it doesnt matter if the seller and buyer are both willing to sidestep the law. They are both committing federal felonies. Its an interstate transfer and all interstate transfer have to go through a dealer. Most realistic option is transferring through a Washington dealer.

And no, State law does not trump federal law. State law can add to federal law but it cannot take away from federal law..

I'd listen to this guy tho...

 

[wired]

I'd listen to this guy tho...

This has been hashed, rehashed and double rehashed so many times i',m suprised it still comes up. No intertstate transfers without a dealer ever but the same thing always. Just do the wink wink nudge nudge or yeah its legal to buy because Idaho says whatever...Wrong. No interstate transfers without a dealer. Felony. Federal Felony. The guy you sell the gun to goes on a killing spree. You know who they come after to make an example out of? The guy who committed the federal felony of selling a gun across state lines without going through an FFL. YOU.

 

[andreys21]

Man, all this bureaucracy sure is making it tough for all those criminals who are trying to get a gun. I'm so glad laws prevent crime.

 

[nobamaplease]

Just a scenario of what you would do, not what the laws that have been stated over and over.
Scenario, not a repeat of laws from past post.
I'm guesting you would not buy!

 

[BAJ475]

Here's a scenario for ya - you're visiting (Driving) to Texas or Kansas or some other gun friendly state and you went to a gun show and saw a nice AR for a GREAT price from an private individual. You pull out cash and purchased the AR and asked about FFL transfer. The seller reply's "no need."

What do you do in this scenario? (The AR is in your hands)

1. Find FFL there to do the transfer under WA state laws.
2. Find FFL there and have him mail it to your FFL back home.
3. Ask for refund & return AR to seller.
4. Drive it home to your FFL to do the transfer.
5. Drive it home and call it good.
6. Other option - explain

I am sure this has never happened to anyone, but just a fun scenario to see what you would do, not what the law states (like posts above).

First, I am an Idaho resident so WA laws would not apply. But, for sake of discussion, assume I am a WA resident. Options 1 and 2 would appear to be OK. Option 3, is a bit confusing because federal law deals with transfers of possession and it is not clear that would have necessarily taken place. The seller may have your money but may not have yet transferred possession. In this sense, possession and custody are not the same thing, so "in your hands" it not the test. As an example of custody, the AR could be "in your hands" before you agreed to purchase it. Possession involves more than custody. Options 4 & 5 are federal felonies, so they are out. As far as it ever happening, it could. While I was a CA resident I put an AR together for my brother, who was an ID resident. I took it to an FFL in Post Falls to do the transfer. The FFL said that because it was a long gun, we did not need to use an FFL to do the transfer. I politely said that it was not an issue of Idaho law, which had no requirements, but federal law and because my brother and I were residents of different states, the transfer had to go through an ID FFL and they should look it up. They did and agreed. He filled out the 4473 from, they did the NICS check, and he left with his AR. So the seller in your example is just incorrect and risking committing a federal felony. In my case If the transfer takes place in WA the buyer will have to comply i-1639. If the transfer takes place in ID it will be up to the ID FFL to comply with all laws. That may or may not avoid the i-1639 BS. That is not my concern.

 

[BAJ475]

This has been hashed, rehashed and double rehashed so many times i',m surprised it still comes up. No interstate transfers without a dealer ever but the same thing always. Just do the wink wink nudge nudge or yeah its legal to buy because Idaho says whatever...Wrong. No interstate transfers without a dealer. Felony. Federal Felony. The guy you sell the gun to goes on a killing spree. You know who they come after to make an example out of? The guy who committed the federal felony of selling a gun across state lines without going through an FFL. YOU.

Yes, it has been hashed, rehashed and double rehashed. But it is not surprising because people do not read both the federal and state laws together, as you note they must. They also tend to read law the way they want them to be not the way the court's have construed them. That is part of the reason we are here to help them stay out of serious trouble.
My original post was about transporting not the need for a FFL, because I already knew about the need for an FFL.

 

[BAJ475]

Just a scenario of what you would do, not what the laws that have been stated over and over.
Scenario, not a repeat of laws from past post.
I'm guesting you would not buy!

You guess correctly when you assume that I would not commit a federal felony. If your purported seller would not ship to my local FFL and would not give me my money back, I would merely call the ATF and have the the seller arrested for attempting to violate federal firearms laws.

 

[BAJ475]

Man, all this bureaucracy sure is making it tough for all those criminals who are trying to get a gun. I'm so glad laws prevent crime.

I do enjoy some sarcasm from time to time, especially when it is directed at idiots.

 

[AK0perator47]

Stop the insanity and if one of us from Washington want to buy one of your semi auto rifle then have your ffl ship it to a Washington ffl. Simple and before someone else says something else... the only way that they would not ship it is because they are NOT willing to bother with it. I have purchased firearms over the past 7 years and even the last two weeks and have zero issues even though I bought them from an ffl back east.

 

[trevi]

Guys you are making this way way to hard.

They buyer sends you his ffl information. You contact the ffl. They send you a form. You put a copy of the form in the box. Go to the local fedex ship center and mail it to the person's ffl.

Done

I have sold guns all over the country this way with no issue.

Or use SHIPMYGUN.COM! Long guns with this company ship for about $22 @ 9lbs.

 

[WTC]

Hand guns need to go thru a licensed FFL from Seller's state to a Licensed FFL in the buyer's state, then to buyer.

An FFL who is licensed in both states can do the transaction in 1 swell foop like at a gun show.

Well, last time we had a show in 2019 that was the case.
Now that outer space creatures are in charge who knows..

I forgot that. I think you are right. I only build and sell rifles or uppers really

 

[arakboss]

Learn and follow all the gun laws in your state of residence! PERIOD!

If shipping a firearm out of state the receiving FFL is responsible for following the laws there!

There is a lot of erroneous information and ill advised recommendations in this thread!

Let's all be responsible gun owners and vote all anti 2A politicians out of office!

Respectfully,

And note that WA law does not prohibit WA residents from obtaining a long gun from an FFL in Oregon or Idaho, including semi-auto long guns. Also note that WA law only requires I-1639 enhanced background checks for transfers done in WA.

 

[arakboss]

if you follow atf laws . you are supposed to follow what the residence purchasers laws state.

This is true but OR and Idaho FFLs would be following the WA law by doing a standard background check in their States because WA law only requires I1639 type background checks for transfers that are done in the State of WA.

If I1639 law had been written differently, for example requiring I1639 enhanced background checks for all WA residents regardless of which State the transfer occurs, then the OR and ID FFLs would be required by Federal rules/law to comply. But that is not how the law is written. It specifically requires enhanced background checks for semi-auto long guns transferred in WA State, not elsewhere.

 

[BigBangTheory]

I don't understand what all the confusion over this issue is? I am on ARFCOM as well as this board and have purchased Longuns as well as other firearms big and small from states all over the Union. Yet only here do I find folks who are wary or unknowledgeable about what it takes to sell a firearm to another person in another state. As a result I see members on here turning down a potential sale due to this lack of easily attainable knowledge and fear they are breaking the law. It's a very simple process. All you need to know is that you don't need a FFL to transfer it to another FFL. You the owner can send it as a individual along with a copy of your drivers license to the buyers FFL as long as their FFL accepts from a individual and most all of them I have dealt with here in Washington do. Of course do your due diligence make sure the FFL you are sending it to is a real place call and talk to the shop if it makes you feel better there is no shame in that. Then a trip to a post office or mail box store to ship. Let them know the contents of box and where it is going that's about it unless you have made arrangements to also purchase insurance for the package. Now I am not a lawyer nor can I speak to the laws for transferring a fire arm over state lines in every state. But I am sure in Idaho you will be able to do this just like they do in Oregon, Missouri, Florida or the other two dozen states where I have purchased firearms from other gun owners in the last year. A simple web search will provide you with all the information you need. Let me make it even easier. Some of you might find this helpful . https://www.pewpewtactical.com/how-to-mail-guns/