Safety failures / accidental discharges

Liberty97045 · Nov 25, 2012

I watched this show (see link below) on Netflicks for the first time and thought that some of what they said about Remington 700 design problems was pretty convincing. My intention is to start an honest discussion of safeties and our experiences with Remington and other products that have caused accidental discharges. Please don't turn this into a flame fest. :s0131:

I know that most or all of these accidental deaths and injuries could have been prevented IF muzzle control had been practiced.

Here is my story. The year is 1991 and I'm sitting in a clear-cut in the Colton Oregon area about 10 minutes before dawn on opening morning. I'm in a good position overlooking the confluence of two streams about two thirds of the way up the hill. I want to double check the readiness of my 30-06 Winchester model 70 Ranger so I turn the safety to the fire position and bang the gun goes off. Needless to say I was done hunting for the day. Upon further investigation I found that the face of the firing pin that mates with the sear had been ground at an angle instead of square to the firing pin. Under a very specific set of circumstances this allowed the firing pin to rest on the safety rather than the trigger. If the safety was in the center position with the bolt handle up approximately 1/2 inch and you pulled the trigger, you could consistently create this condition. I received a quick (and concerned) reply from Winchester offering to fix this. I did several things wrong but I did the most important thing right. I should've used the center safety position to check my rifle and I should have kept my finger off the trigger. What I was doing right was pointing the muzzle at the earth.

My second story belongs to a friend of mine and concerns his experience with a Remington. I don't know the model but it was an older 30-06 bolt action with a safety on the comb of the stock. His rifle was on the passenger side seat with the muzzle pointed at the floor. As he was coming out of the hunting area he went to take the bullet out of the chamber. As he took the safety off the gun fired through the floor of the pickup, striking a frame member and a brake line distribution block and disabling his pickup. This gun did not have a center safety position with which to unload the rifle. His mistake was having the gun loaded in the pickup. Thankfully he was not injured nor was anyone else.

Both of these stories demonstrate the validity of what I was taught in Oregon hunters education "a safety is a mechanical device that can and will fail." That said, if I was making guns I would want to do everything economically feasible to make these failures extremely rare. I expect that this thread will generate a wide variety of opinions about ultimate responsibility.

I invite you to share your stories and to answer the question "Do you believe that Remington has been negligent?"

Part 1of 3
Remington 700 Recall part1of3.mpg - YouTube

Quality trigger?
Remington X-Mark Pro Trigger - FAILURE - YouTube

salmonriverjohn · Nov 27, 2012

I had an older Savage 110c that was purchased new in 78?? if memory serves correct which upon the first time I pulled the trigger with the safety on, all went well, that is until I released the safety to prepared to fire. The rifle was pointed down range at the target, the safety released and the rifle fired. It was sent in for repairs, it returned functioning well along with a thank you from Savage.

Thanks for posting your experience here, it's something many of us at one time or another, I'm sure have taken for granted, safety's do malfunction.

Uberdillo · Nov 27, 2012

OP watches Remington trigger recall "media" and makes a post with relevant and direct experience including safety issues from OTHER firearms. *surprised and relieved*

deadeye · Nov 27, 2012

Not another thread on this..... You mean you didnt watch that video two years ago when it was uploaded to boobtube?

If memory serves me it was people playing gunsmith or cheap backyard smiths that caused most of the issues and the rest was just operator error or lackluster cleaning.

Velzey · Nov 27, 2012

On a model 70 the sear engagment surface on the rear section of the firing pin is machined at an angle from the factory. Was this a brand new rifle or used?

And no, I have seen several of the "problem" Remington triggers and they had all been adjusted and never cleaned....

iamme · Nov 28, 2012

cliff notes: use your head and common sense people.

deadeye said:
Not another thread on this..... You mean you didnt watch that video two years ago when it was uploaded to boobtube?

If memory serves me it was people playing gunsmith or cheap backyard smiths that caused most of the issues and the rest was just operator error or lackluster cleaning.

Liberty97045 · Nov 28, 2012

Velzey said:
On a model 70 the sear engagment surface on the rear section of the firing pin is machined at an angle from the factory. Was this a brand new rifle or used?

And no, I have seen several of the "problem" Remington triggers and they had all been adjusted and never cleaned....

Purchased brand new by me. No modifications and less than 50 rounds before failure. I traded the Ranger in on a model 70 SS "classic" (remake of pre-64). I believe that it has the sear engagement surface with no angle. I will double check this and post back on what I find.

I get the adjustment / modification thing but if a gun needs the trigger mechanism cleaned in order for the safety to work reliably that would seem to me to be an opportunity for improvement.

Liberty97045 · Nov 28, 2012

deadeye said:
Not another thread on this..... You mean you didnt watch that video two years ago when it was uploaded to boobtube?

If memory serves me it was people playing gunsmith or cheap backyard smiths that caused most of the issues and the rest was just operator error or lackluster cleaning.

Well EX-CUUUUZE ME!

I am new to this forum and have not read a thread on this. I did a search prior to posting too.

keystir · Nov 28, 2012

There's nothing wrong with posting about this issue. This forum and all others are full of retread threads on all sorts of topics. In fact on this very forum right now there is a 7 page thread arguing about abortion rights and healthcare, absolutely nothing to do with firearms and absolutely everything to do with an argument that has been thoroughly beaten to death with forum moderators heavily involved . Thanks for sharing your story and I hope others will post about theirs as well.

salmonriverjohn · Nov 28, 2012

Liberty97045 said:
Well EX-CUUUUZE ME!

I am new to this forum and have not read a thread on this. I did a search prior to posting too.

You'll have to excuse old Deadeye,, sometimes his good eye closes and he has to type by braille.
Just funing you Deadeye, but you may want to cut the new guy a little slack, I mean after all he hasn't been around since the red sea parted like some of us, hmmm.

Morpheus · Nov 28, 2012

I won't debate if or if not the failure of a safety on Remington causes issues like this. But it is issues or possible issues like this that keep my safety in the off setting at all time. I never use safeties and train without them. I also train people not to use the blast things.

In my not so humble opinion, it is when people rely on a safety to make everything 'safe' they get into bad habits and end up doing things which harm their selves or others.

Liberty97045 · Dec 2, 2012

Velzey said:
On a model 70 the sear engagment surface on the rear section of the firing pin is machined at an angle from the factory. Was this a brand new rifle or used?

And no, I have seen several of the "problem" Remington triggers and they had all been adjusted and never cleaned....

I checked on my Winchester 70 Classic 30-06 and this surface is ground at a 90 degree angle. It does have a very slight cup but I doubt this is by design. It probably is the contour of the wheel it was finished on.

longcolt · Dec 2, 2012

I was recently asked to help establish values on a gun collection of 29 various hand guns and rifles which included an older Remington model 700 in 7mm. As I was checking the rifle to insure it was unloaded I noticed that the gun would fire when the safety was pushed in the fire position. It would also fire when cocked.

I brought the rifle home and broke it down and discovered that the little button above the trigger that is used to release the bolt would stick and did not have a positive action. Further examination showed that the mechanism had not been cleaned, up on the trigger module were two levers that would stick which apparently holds the trigger in the fire position. It was gummed up pretty good. I cleaned it up real good, lubed it lightly and the button would then go on and off with a audible click as it was supposed to.

So rather than blame Remington I claim it is operator error for not keeping the gun in good repair and servicing it as required in the manual. This particular rifle looked great on the outside but was very dirty on the inside, chamber, barrel, and internals. It was an accident waiting to happen.

I now see how and why there has been so much discussion and alarm about these rifles. But you know if you don't maintain your brakes on your car or truck you won't be able to stop at the stoplights. Don't maintain your machinery and you run the risk of a big problem.