SAF wins CCW challenge in New Mexico for res. legal aliens

[Dave Workman]

SAF wins injunction v. N.M. "citizens only" CCW requirement


The Second Amendment Foundation notched another court victory today, this time in New Mexico, where a section of that state's concealed carry law was hit with a permanent injunction for violating the Constitution's equal protection clause, while in neighboring Colorado, a federal court this morning began hearing a challenge to that state's new gun laws, passed in 2013.

<broken link removed>

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[fd15k]

Dave, nice to see you write about stuff that matters for a change

 

[Dave Workman]

Dave, nice to see you write about stuff that matters for a change

HA!
Everything I write about matters to somebody. Perhaps just not to you.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

See some good stuff from Dave, don't see the one about Nebraska but we go it on the GRC FB page. Once I read this I imagine it will be there too.

 

[8ball]

Maybe SAF could turn their attention to the stupid WA law that prohibits most non citizens from even visiting a range?

I'm sure the ranges would like the tourist dollars!

 

[fd15k]

Maybe SAF could turn their attention to the stupid WA law that prohibits most non citizens from even visiting a range?

I'm sure the ranges would like the tourist dollars!

How does the law read ? I suspect it's not about permanent residents.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

Maybe SAF could turn their attention to the stupid WA law that prohibits most non citizens from even visiting a range?

I'm sure the ranges would like the tourist dollars!

We have several laws that I would like to see addressed. I'm not aware of this one though, can you provide more details?

 

[John H]

Maybe SAF could turn their attention to the stupid WA law that prohibits most non citizens from even visiting a range?

I'm sure the ranges would like the tourist dollars!

Which law is that?? There are lots of Canadians that use both ranges in Whatcom county

 

[8ball]

RCW 9.41.175 basically prohibits non-immigrant aliens from shooting, unless it's for hunting or a sporting event. Basically, you can't just take non-citizens to the range like you would any American. Canadians are exempt.

The relevant language is:

(3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles, pistols, or shotguns are used.

The type of range tourism you see in places like Vegas and Honolulu is illegal in WA, for no good reason. It would be interesting to understand the origins of this law. Any theories?

 

[fd15k]

RCW 9.41.175 basically prohibits non-immigrant aliens from shooting, unless it's for hunting or a sporting event. Basically, you can't just take non-citizens to the range like you would any American. Canadians are exempt.

The relevant language is:

(3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles, pistols, or shotguns are used.

The type of range tourism you see in places like Vegas and Honolulu is illegal in WA, for no good reason. It would be interesting to understand the origins of this law. Any theories?

Okay, so just like I suspected - non-immigrants. The law is probably inspired by the Federal law regarding possession by non-immigrants. Initially ATF interpreted it to mean all non-immigrants with hunting and competition exceptions, but about a year ago they got slapped by DOJ for including visa waiver folks in the prohibition. Either way, I think when WA legislators got inspired by that stuff, they took it a bit too far.

One more thing. That Vegas gun tourism you're talking about is very illegal under Federal law. Feds never really bothered to catch foreigners on it, but it did happen. One case comes to mind was some middle-eastern student a few years ago, who was a terrorist suspect and was being watched by FBI. They couldn't dig up any terrorism stuff on him, so they busted him when he held a rifle at a shooting range. Now as I said above, interpretation has changed with the aid of DOJ, but still a lot of tourists are prohibited from handling firearms unless they buy hunting licenses or state shooting competition as the reason for their admission to the US.

 

[fd15k]

Karim Moussaoui appeals his conviction for possessing a firearm while in

the United States on a nonimmigrant visa in violation of 18 U.S.C. §922(g)(5)(B).

The facts established at trial show that Moussaoui had a rifle in his possession for

some minutes at a shooting range.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca11/08-14178/200814178-2011-02-28.html

 

[8ball]

One more thing. That Vegas gun tourism you're talking about is very illegal under Federal law. Feds never really bothered to catch foreigners on it, but it did happen. One case comes to mind was some middle-eastern student a few years ago, who was a terrorist suspect and was being watched by FBI. They couldn't dig up any terrorism stuff on him, so they busted him when he held a rifle at a shooting range. Now as I said above, interpretation has changed with the aid of DOJ, but still a lot of tourists are prohibited from handling firearms unless they buy hunting licenses or state shooting competition as the reason for their admission to the US.

Really? That's not what the FAQ on the ATF site says, or the DoJ. I believe they realized a couple of years ago that there was no legal basis for the ATF making this claim in the majority of cases e.g. tourists at a range on a visa waiver.

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/faq/non-immigrant-aliens.pdf

Q 5. I'm a nonimmigrant alien lawfully present in the United States without a visa . May I purchase or possess a firearm in the United States? A5. A nonimmigrant alien who is lawfully admitted to the United States without a visa (e.g. Visa Waiver Program), may acquire or possess a firearm in the United States , provided that he or she is not prohibited from ship ping , transport ing , receiving , or possess ing firearms or ammunition in the U.S.

Also see http://www.justice.gov/olc/opiniondocs/nonimmigrant-firearms-opinion.pdf

The prohibition in 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(5)(B) applies only to nonimmigrant aliens who must have visas to be admitted to the United States, not to all aliens with nonimmigrant status. The text of the statute forecloses the interpretation advanced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in an interim final rule applying section 922(g)(5)(B) to all nonimmigrant aliens.

The DoJ clearly point out where the ATF went wrong in their interim rule.

Ironically, when I searched for more info, I ended up back here at a thread from last year in which we both posted.

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/th...-london-early-banned-from-social-media.93875/

 

[fd15k]

Really? That's not what the FAQ on the ATF site says, or the DoJ. I believe they realized a couple of years ago that there was no legal basis for the ATF making this claim in the majority of cases e.g. tourists at a range on a visa waiver.

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/faq/non-immigrant-aliens.pdf



Also see http://www.justice.gov/olc/opiniondocs/nonimmigrant-firearms-opinion.pdf

Ironically, when I searched for more info, I ended up back here at a thread from last year in which we both posted.

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/th...-london-early-banned-from-social-media.93875/

Nothing in the message above contradicts what I said

 

[John H]

RCW 9.41.175 basically prohibits non-immigrant aliens from shooting, unless it's for hunting or a sporting event. Basically, you can't just take non-citizens to the range like you would any American. Canadians are exempt.

The relevant language is:

(3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles, pistols, or shotguns are used.

The type of range tourism you see in places like Vegas and Honolulu is illegal in WA, for no good reason. It would be interesting to understand the origins of this law. Any theories?

So just for instance, I knew someone who once took a Japanese exchange student to the range , that would be illegal right ??

 

[fd15k]

So just for instance, I knew someone who once took a Japanese exchange student to the range , that would be illegal right ??

One of the questions before was also how the person entered US. Japanese nationals are eligible for visa-waiver, I believe, but an exchange student likely came on F1 visa... I will need to re-read that DOJ opinion.