Sad story over here, finding four hunters 'almost impossible'

[Oregonhunter5]

it would be hard not to go crazy over this one.

Finding 4 hunters 'almost impossible,' Idaho sheriff says. One family disagrees.

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[The Heretic]

How many families have experience being a first responder in search and rescue? When a large and/or swift body of water is involved? Finding bodies swept away by that swift water?

I have that experience.

It can take months, if they ever do find them at all. After the first hours or so, if there is no sign of survivors, in a case like this, this is very little chance that a search will find them, and as the sheriff correctly stated, they will only find bodies.

Then there is the risk of putting people in dangerous situations during search and rescue operations.

 

[308]

it would be hard not to go crazy over this one.

Finding 4 hunters 'almost impossible,' Idaho sheriff says. One family disagrees.

Seem journalists nowdays go for quantity if words rather than precise content.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

How many families have experience being a first responder in search and rescue? When a large and/or swift body of water is involved? Finding bodies swept away by that swift water?

I have that experience.

It can take months, if they ever do find them at all. After the first hours or so, if there is no sign of survivors, in a case like this, this is very little chance that a search will find them, and as the sheriff correctly stated, they will only find bodies.

Then there is the risk of putting people in dangerous situations during search and rescue operations.

Interesting. Sad deal. Where do the bodies go? Meaning if they can't find them?

 

[clearconscience]

Well if that Sheriff use the words as stated by Rollins father he is truly a POS and shouldn't be in office.

But he is probably right. An area like that probably has really low, if any resourses at all to do a large search in a remote area. It would cost a ton of money.
I woukd think you would at least want to run a helo down the river for any sign.

That river is raging and the possibility is extremely thin.

With water like that it would be easy for a body to get caught on a rock, tree, and group of timber in thw river and stay forever.
It happens a lot.

With as thick as that brush is, it would difficult to search the bank.
But as a father, I'd dang sure be there covering the bank for as far as I could.

I've been down roads like that and it's a sphincter clenching ride.
If your going at night, low visability it's dangerous to drive at any speed over 20mph, trucks slide to easily.

Truly sad story for such young lives. This guy was probably too young to be guiding people in a remote area.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I know the guides Mom. There not well. I'd pay a helicopter pilot myself to run the river in search. $10,000 is cheap for answers.

 

[The Heretic]

Interesting. Sad deal. Where do the bodies go? Meaning if they can't find them?

In a river? They usually get caught on something (snags, rocks, etc.) until they decompose enough for parts to break off. In the ocean? They either sink to the bottom and become food for scavengers (crabs, starfish, fish, etc.) or the bloat and float, sometimes wash ashore.

Either way, they often will wash well downriver for miles and miles. You can waste a lot of time and money searching for them and never find them. If you have the money and time, then great, hire somebody, but do not ask public servants to risk their lives and waste tax payer money searching for some relative who probably made a stupid decision and drowned themselves such that they cannot be found relatively soon.

That may sound callous, but I care more for the lives of first responders and their families than I do for somebody who probably was drunk and out hunting wolves in the middle of the night who drove themselves into a river. Their families have their answer - these people are drowned and dead. Finding their bodies won't change that fact.

 

[The Heretic]

I know the guides Mom. There not well. I'd pay a helicopter pilot myself to run the river in search. $10,000 is cheap for answers.

Great. You pay for it. Don't ask taxpayers to.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Great. You pay for it. Don't ask taxpayers to.

I was meaning if I was the parent. But we will remember your sentiment.

 

[The Heretic]

I was meaning if I was the parent. But we will remember your sentiment.

My "sentiment" is based on 4 years risking my life, along with others, in the USCG rescuing people who either did stupid stuff or were unlucky - often both. Saw a LOT of taxpayer money wasted on same. Saw people get injured or die - including friends and colleagues who were trying to rescue those people.

The attitude today that the government should be responsible for individuals instead of individuals being responsible for themselves is at the core of our problems. So I don't really give a **** what people think of my "sentiment".

 

[Oregonhunter5]

My "sentiment" is based on 4 years risking my life, along with others, in the USCG rescuing people who either did stupid stuff or were unlucky - often both. Saw a LOT of taxpayer money wasted on same. Saw people get injured or die - including friends and colleagues who were trying to rescue those people.

The attitude today that the government should be responsible for individuals instead of individuals being responsible for themselves is at the core of our problems. So I don't really give a **** what people think of my "sentiment".

Well thanks for your coast guard run. But life isn't as perfect as we'd like it sometimes. Do you remember when you were young and dumb? The guide was 21. And out taxes paid for the coast guard.

 

[RVTECH]

With water like that it would be easy for a body to get caught on a rock, tree, and group of timber in thw river and stay forever.
It happens a lot.

Yes it does - a few years ago they recovered a body in the Deschutes that was entangled and concealed in trees and branches in a fast moving section and not far from where the person went in.

but I care more for the lives of first responders and their families than I do for somebody who probably was drunk and out hunting wolves in the middle of the night who drove themselves into a river.

So do I and wondered about just this given the Sheriff 'declined to say' on this...

Giddings declined to say whether investigators believe alcohol or drugs were a factor in the crash.

 

[The Heretic]

Well thanks for your coast guard run. But life isn't as perfect as we'd like it sometimes. Do you remember when you were young and dumb? The guide was 21. And out taxes paid for the coast guard.

I very much remember being young and stupid. I remember it every day when my back and neck hurt and I sometimes can't walk (like today) because of a really stupid thing I did when I was 17. I remember it every time I go in for therapy and adjustment on my back and on my shoulder - the latter because I did something stupid when I was 14.

I was happy to help people when I was in the USCG - that was one of the main reasons why I chose the CG, because I wanted to help/save people. I did it gladly. I help people whenever I can.

But when people are ungrateful, and demand that others risk their lives to find the bodies of their children who were out doing something stupid and/or reckless, then I have a problem with that.

I hold no responsible for my own stupid actions except myself, and I don't go around grousing about the government not doing enough to protect me from myself or helping me afterwards. I deal with it. Forgive me if I am grumpy - I get that way when I am in pain.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I very much remember being young and stupid. I remember it every day when my back and neck hurt and I sometimes can't walk because of a really stupid thing I did when I was 17. I remember it every time I go in for therapy and adjustment on my back and on my shoulder - the latter because I did something stupid when I was 14.

I was happy to help people when I was in the USCG - that was one of the main reasons why I chose the CG, because I wanted to help/save people. I did it gladly. I help people whenever I can.

But when people are ungrateful, and demand that others risk their lives to find the bodies of their children who were out doing something stupid and/or reckless, then I have a problem with that.

I hold no responsible for my own stupid actions except myself, and I don't go around grousing about the government not doing enough to protect me from myself or helping me afterwards. I deal with it.

I really agree more than I'm probably showing. It's just hard when families are "in the moment ".
Btw, I'm considered a pretty tough guy by most, but I'd cringe if I was in the coast guard. Water scares me a lot. I'm completely enamored by the mystery and power of the ocean waters.

 

[RVTECH]

My "sentiment" is based on 4 years risking my life, along with others, in the USCG rescuing people who either did stupid stuff or were unlucky - often both.

I had a former co-worker who also was is the USCG - and would occasionally tell me stories of his experiences most likely similar to yours.

 

[The Heretic]

I really agree more than I'm probably showing. It's just hard when families are "in the moment ".
Btw, I'm considered a pretty tough guy by most, but I'd cringe if I was in the coast guard. Water scares me a lot. I'm completely enamored by the mystery and power of the ocean waters.

I totally understand what the family is going thru - my brother lost his daughter recently because she was texting and driving. Very hard thing to go thru I am sure.

I have seen families have to deal with losing loved ones due to accidents. Having to recover dead bodies is one of the things first responders have to deal with and it isn't easy. Had a friend in the CG go diving for 2 days to get the body of a diver caught between the finger jetties at Yaquina Bay. Saw the boats come in a number of times with bodies - sometimes people who jumped off the bridge (that happened a number of times). Dealt with the aftermath of a drunk boater who wound up capsizing his boat on the bar and his wife drowned and we had to rescue them.

In short - BTDT.

 

[The Heretic]

I remember back in '79 when that crazy lady threw her kids (one 2.5 and the other 1.5 years old) off the Pasco bridge into the Columbia. She never served a day for that crime.

They found one kid about 45 days later washed up, and another one about 2 weeks after that. That was with all of Benton and Franklin county sheriffs and the CG out searching for them with boats and helos at first, and lots of volunteers and mostly clean shores with a wide river that is fairly easy navigating in small boats.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Man. Tough stories. You can't prepare people to handle that very easily. I'm guessing you don't get paid very well in the coast guard..?

 

[elsie]

The CG is an Armed Service of the US and has the same pay grades as the other services. When I was in ('75-'85) pay for E1-E5 was pretty much poverty level. It wasn't till E6 that I felt I was making decent money.


elsie

 

[The Heretic]

Man. Tough stories. You can't prepare people to handle that very easily. I'm guessing you don't get paid very well in the coast guard..?

At the time, there were no programs (that I was aware of) for any kind of counseling or other help in dealing with the stress.

I seem to recall that in boot camp ('77) pay was below $400 per month as a recruit, as an E-4 it was ~$500 per month with $175 BAQ if you had a dependent (I did). A lot of us had second jobs we worked off duty - a significant portion of Coasties at Newport and Depoe Bay worked either as EMTs or volunteered for the fire dept. (the latter was very much the case at Depoe Bay). When I got out in '81 I was making about $1K a month that included BAQ. Considering it was not uncommon to work 60-80 hours a week, it hovered around minimum wage, maybe more if you think of it as getting paid hourly, which we didn't.

Then there were the times, it seemed almost yearly, but was probably every other year (I do remember it happening 2 or maybe 3 times), when Congress would be in gridlock over the budget towards the end of the year, and our paychecks would get held hostage for a month or two. That happened this year - every time there is a tiff over the budget then usually the military paychecks don't get sent out. They can put much of the gov. on furlough, but not the military enlisted and officers. IIRC that last one was in '80 and my bank shut down my account because there was no activity for too long.