SAA - Load 5... Myth or Reality?

[aflineman]

Most of those were with the firing pin resting upon the round (hammer all of the way down). OP specifically asked about the first notch in the hammer. I guess I could state the this way. In no case is it safe for a round to be under a hammer in a SAA, unless it is ready to be fired. No matter what notch location the hammer is in.
I am very aware what has been said about the Colt SAA. I have owned them most all of my life. And used one to judge how strong I was when younger by trying to pick my Grandfather's up off the bed in the camper (with him there). I still own and shoot that one to this day. I also know folks who carry them daily, even some while riding a horse. And I have been known to daily carry one at times. (Though if I never see a horse again, it will be to soon for me. I am not fond of the things).

 

[Spitpatch]

Elmer Keith said stirrups hitting the hammer while saddling caused them to go off pretty often.

Sounds like Elmer. He's apparently also saying almost nobody paid any attention to the "load five, stay alive" rule. This also sounds like Elmer: deliver the important message by saying something else.

 

[Diamondback]

Even back in the time, Wyatt Earp was reported as saying those in the know only carried Hammer Down on Empty Chamber for SAA's.

"… I have often been asked why five shots without reloading were all a top-notch gunfighter fired, when his guns were chambered for six cartridges. The answer is, merely, safety. To ensure against accidental discharge of the gun while in the holster, due to hair-trigger adjustment, the hammer rested upon an empty chamber. … Practiced gun-wielders had too much respect for their weapons to take unnecessary chances with them; it was only with tyros and would-bes that you heard of accidental discharges or didn't-know-it-was-loaded injuries in the country where carrying a Colt was a man's prerogative."

Read the rest of the interview, some eye-opening stuff, at https://web.archive.org/web/2017092...gear-blog/wyatt-earp-interview-on-gunfighting

 

[fstdraw]

Of course, JB Books said to "load six if your guts tells you too!"

 

[Scout 38S]

Having had a family member who disregarded the empty chamber rule, he got an expensive ride in a ambulance to an even more expensive hospital where they performed emergency surgery in his thoractic cavity to save his life. He had a colt style revolver that fell from a dresser top and the hammer hit the floor first and the gun went off. He was shot, through the guts. He lived but he doesn't own a single action revolver. I also had a friend that shot himself through the calf with a Ruger original blackhawk 44 for he disobeyed conventional wisdom and got to find out what it felt like to have a 250grain Keith pushed by 21 grains of 2400 as it coursed through his right calf and exited out of the instep of his foot. DON'T DO IT.

 

[Ridge Walker]

True Story:
My father's Air Force Commander (a Colonel), retired happily in Lewistown, Montana. He owned an early FJ40 Landcruiser and a Ruger Blackhawk (3 screw, old model) in .357.
Had the pistol in its holster, on a gun belt and hanging from the roll bar of the Cruiser.
Traversing some rough country, he hit a ditch harder than he'd planned, but the Cruiser did what they do, and bounced over and out of it. Hard enough to rattle anything loose in the cab (and make a lot of noise during the bounce...he thought).
Driving on a little further, he felt something warm in his lap, he said, "Like I'd pissed myself."
Looked down and the seat was pooled with blood. Then he saw the hole in the dashboard. Then he saw the hole in his abdomen. Then he reached around back and found a hole there too.
That .357 slug out of the pistol that fired when it hit the floor hammer-first, had entered the steel backing of the Cruiser seat, went through the upholstery, through the Colonel, through the dashboard and firewall, and was later found lodged against the engine block.
The Colonel drove himself to the hospital. Made it okay.

Them 357s ain't no joke.

 

[Spitpatch]

Them 357s ain't no joke.

It is my understanding that a significant reasoning and goal for the cartridge in its development stage was performance on suspects in an automobile (the .38 just wasn't cuttin' the mustard in those scenarios). Designed not only as a people-killer, but a car-killer.

Met its match with the Colonel and the Cruiser. All in all, still a pretty impressive performance.

 

[leverite]

You blackpowder guys can tell us if this is true...did Colt 1851 Navy or 1860 Army percussion cap guns have notches between the caps that nested the hammer so that it was safe to load six?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

You blackpowder guys can tell us if this is true...did Colt 1851 Navy or 1860 Army percussion cap guns have notches between the caps that nested the hammer so that it was safe to load six?

They had pins on the cylinder between the nipples.
In theory you could rest the hammer on this safety pin.

Early 1851 Navy revolvers only had one pin...sometimes you see this on the 1860 Army revolvers as well.
Later models of both series of revolvers had 6 pins.

In any event...using the so called safety pin....will promote excessive wear on the springs , notches and cylinder hand.
( In my experience with both Colt made revolvers and Italian made replicas )

I would suggest not using the pin and loading all six chambers of the cylinder , but only capping 5.
With the hammer on the loaded , but uncapped chamber , if you are not going to shoot your revolver right away.
Andy

 

[Stomper]

True Story:
My father's Air Force Commander (a Colonel), retired happily in Lewistown, Montana. He owned an early FJ40 Landcruiser and a Ruger Blackhawk (3 screw, old model) in .357.
Had the pistol in its holster, on a gun belt and hanging from the roll bar of the Cruiser.
Traversing some rough country, he hit a ditch harder than he'd planned, but the Cruiser did what they do, and bounced over and out of it. Hard enough to rattle anything loose in the cab (and make a lot of noise during the bounce...he thought).
Driving on a little further, he felt something warm in his lap, he said, "Like I'd pissed myself."
Looked down and the seat was pooled with blood. Then he saw the hole in the dashboard. Then he saw the hole in his abdomen. Then he reached around back and found a hole there too.
That .357 slug out of the pistol that fired when it hit the floor hammer-first, had entered the steel backing of the Cruiser seat, went through the upholstery, through the Colonel, through the dashboard and firewall, and was later found lodged against the engine block.
The Colonel drove himself to the hospital. Made it okay.

Daaaaaaannnggggg…….

The Colonel should've broken off the wings of his "bird" rank insignia and given them to his guardian angle…. 'cuz I'm pretty sure "his" got all bent up and broken deflecting that bullet just right!!

 

[WAYNO]

A short 48 years ago, an Army buddy was riding a motorcycle while hunting, wearing a SA revolver. He dumped the bike, and immediately found two holes in his thigh, an entry wound and an exit wound. Fortunately, there was little more injury than the two holes, which required stitching up with no other surgeries. He would on occasion wear the fatigues he was wearing, with two neat little patches to cover the holes.

Myth or reality? Before the mishap, it was an unheeded myth. Afterwards, it remained a valuable lesson to all of us in his circles.

 

[Jonnyuma]

Unless I'm at the firing line loading and shooting, l even carry my (new model) Blackhawk w an empty chamber.

I'm not even really sure why... maybe its just a habit that l don't want to break for lack of practicing it.

It don't hurt nuthin'... all of my Main Street showdowns have been over in 3 rds or less. After that, l usually run away while everybody is distracted by laughing so hard.

 

[Stomper]

Unless I'm at the firing line loading and shooting, l even carry my (new model) Blackhawk w an empty chamber.

I'm not even really sure why... maybe its just a habit that l don't want to break for lack of practicing it.

It don't hurt nuthin'... all of my Main Street showdowns have been over in 3 rds or less. After that, l usually run away while everybody is distracted by laughing so hard.

That's 'cuz you can't dance.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Sometimes you have to stand way back and look at things, look way back to 1873 when Colt first produced the SAA for the military.

Look at the way the gun was to be carried and how it was used. Military had it butt forward on the right side in a flap holster. I don't know if they had a lot of accidents with six rounds in the gun, maybe yes maybe no but ask yourself what could hit the hammer hard enough to fire when it was carried in a flap holster backwards?

SAA started going bang when the cowboys and such wore it hammer forward for fast draw. Stirrup would fall down while saddling a horse and hit the hammer. It is my opinion the open carry caused to go to five rounds and I believe that is the safe way in all the modern style of holster.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Look at the way the gun was to be carried and how it was used. Military had it butt forward on the right side in a flap holster. I don't know if they had a lot of accidents with six rounds in the gun, maybe yes maybe no but ask yourself what could hit the hammer hard enough to fire when it was carried in a flap holster backwards?

The reason for this was because the saber was still thought of as the primary weapon of the Cavalry...
So you would draw the saber with your right hand...and the revolver with your left hand.

Edit to add
Yes I know that the saber's weren't used much with the SAA...but that is "why" behind the holster set up.
Andy

 

[Longwalkhome]

The reason for this was because the saber was still thought of as the primary weapon of the Cavalry...
So you would draw the saber with your right hand...and the revolver with your left hand.
Andy

From what i read, from horseback the SAA or Saber was used with the right hand and the left hand controls the horse. Saber was last resort. While I am old I wasn't there to know for sure but my love of the old west has me reading a lot.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

From what i read, from horseback the SAA or Saber was used with the right hand and the left hand controls the horse. Saber was last resort. While I am old I wasn't there to know for sure but my love of the old west has me reading a lot.

I read a lot of history ...to include military manuals of the period...
I ain't read what you stated in a period reference , so I guess we read different books.

Of course all that really means is that I ain't read it , yet.....
Andy

 

[ma96782]

In SASS we don't care that you have one of them new-fangled "safety, thing a ma bobs" on your SAA. Original or clone or close clone. In loading your SAA....you load five and the hammer is positioned over an empty chamber. Then, your SAA is holstered.

Yes.....I've seen instances when a loaded SAA hit the deck.

Everyone cringes when it happens BUT thank GOD.....no one gets hurt. Yeah......it's a SASS event. I don't care if you got a "safety". That's the way it's done while you're at the event.

NOW.....
IF you choose to tempt faith (while on your own). Well, you've been warned.

Humm.......Rrrrright......watch many of those "incredibly safe videos" of trained Glock owners? OK, Ok, ok.....that was a dig.

Whatever......have a good/safe day.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Longwalkhome]

I read a lot of history ...to include military manuals of the period...
I ain't read what you stated in a period reference , so I guess we read different books.

Of course all that really means is that I ain't read it , yet.....
Andy

I don't know anything for sure Andy but do you think the Army bought thousands of 5 shooters to go to war with?

Colt Single Action Army - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I don't know anything for sure Andy but do you think the Army bought thousands of 5 shooters to go to war with?

Colt Single Action Army - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I go with period accounts...in this case actual writings from the 1850's to the 1890's.
I have found that period accounts will be different than 20th and 21st century writings on the same subject.
I like period accounts...'cause they were written by folks who were actually there.....

In any event...
In regards to the Holsters.....not 5 or 6 shots in a revolver...which I what my post # 35 was about....
And that post which started our discussion.....

The holster was set up for a left handed draw...because the saber was to be used with the right hand...
And the revolver with the left hand.
At least according to period accounts.

I understand , and have known , long before the internet , that in the later Indian Wars when the Colt SAA was standard and the '51 Navy or '60 Army no longer standard issue ...the saber was rarely used.

Be that as it may...
The holster of the later Indian Wars , was patterned after those holsters issued , when the saber was considered the primary weapon of the cavalry....so that is the Why of the left handed / butt forward draw.
Andy

Edit to add :
If you want to read my thoughts on 5 or 6 shots ...
See my posts # 29 and #4