S&W Victory in 38 S&W, a strange one?

[WAW44]

Handguns are not my thing really, but wanted one to round out the collection . This was on gunbroker and the seller thought it was a post war victory, but it turns out to be a late 1943 production gun. What's weird is that it has no lend lease related or acceptance markings . Guys in S&W forum were a bit stumped. Anyone here have any ideas? All SNs match, V4791xx.

Read More

 

[edzz]

IIRC I've read that some were "issued" state side as war time plant / factory security guns.

 

[WAW44]

IIRC I've read that some were "issued" state side as war time plant / factory security guns.

Yes, the DSC guns, but I understand they were 4" 38 Special guns and not 5" 38 S&W like this one. The 5" usually were made for and went to the commonwealth countries, BSRs. So in 43 one would expect lend lease markings on a 5" gun, even if it never went abroad, but this one does not have any nor does it have acceptance markings from the Brits, Canadians, or the Aussies.

 

[WAYNO]

There are "overruns" that never make it into the military supply chain. So if this revolver was made for British lend-lease, but was never shipped, it would have been sold thru other distribution channels.

This continues much later. Ruger made Speed Sixes for our military, the most obvious difference being a lanyard ring. There are some floating around that are not stamped US, so they didn't get into the military supply chain, and there are also Speed/Security Sixes chambered in .380 Rim, aka .38S&W/.380-200 that were made for overseas contracts that were not shipped, and have been snatched up by collectors.

Another thing...Sometimes, weapons delivered for clandestine operations have no extra markings, just to keep the enemy guessing in the event of capture, of the origin and supply channels.

 

[CountryGent]

I found this in the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson: 4th Edition, by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas, in the section ".38/200 British Service Revolver (Model K 200)":

Early Lend Lease guns were marked UNITED STATES PROPERTY or "U.S. Property" on the top strap. "Made in the U.S.A." appears on the right side of the frame in front of the trigger guard, with the S&W trademark on the sideplate; usually "G.H.D." or "W.B." inspector marks. Later production guns were marked the same as the Victory Model.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Another idea... It simply could have been made..then never sent overseas / issued...then still later say in the 1960's sold as surplus.
Andy

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Often many guns and other "issue" items get warehoused until needed...Perhaps this revolver was made , stored , never issued , then later sold as surplus in the say the 1960's...
Andy

 

[RVTECH]

Or it could have simply missed the marking step.
I have an early Victory that does not have the caliber stamping on the barrel.

 

[KKG]

You might want to contact the S&W Historical Society and request a Factory Letter. That will tell you who the gun was shipped to and also just when it was shipped.

When a gun was made and when it was shipped can be very different. Not too long ago 2 Model 39s with consecutive serial numbers were actually shipped 14 years apart.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

In for what the letter says.

 

[WAW44]

So talked to someone on the S&W Forum. It most certainly shipped 12/43 and went over the pond. He has a similar pistol in V47xxxx serial number range with similar sparse markings and lettered it for a 11/43 shipment. Thanks for looking guys!

 

[KKG]

I would still suggest a Factory Letter. Either that or call the Factory and confirm the shipping date. There is an 800 number on their website.

 

[cordwood]

I have one in 380/200 ( 38 S&W ) 5" barrel marked United States Property but no British markings, no GHD or WB. Serial number does not start with a V.

 

[KKG]

I have one in 380/200 ( 38 S&W ) 5" barrel marked United States Property but no British markings, no GHD or WB. Serial number does not start with a V.

Again, If you are really interested in the History, then a Factory Letter is the best way to go.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

I really should have something actually British, seems fitting...

 

[KKG]

I really should have something actually British, seems fitting...

You might want to contact tac. He does seem to have a few things from the yUK.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Yeah, i'm no longer in the UK though, now i have more freedom to have what i want, i'd love to have something actually British, and/or empire, to go along with my American stuff.

 

[KKG]

tac, I believe is still in his yUK but I think he is coming back this Spring. He has a great deal of knowledge about things British.

 

[DunRanull]

Yes, the DSC guns, but I understand they were 4" 38 Special guns and not 5" 38 S&W like this one. The 5" usually were made for and went to the commonwealth countries, BSRs. So in 43 one would expect lend lease markings on a 5" gun, even if it never went abroad, but this one does not have any nor does it have acceptance markings from the Brits, Canadians, or the Aussies.

I owned a similar Smith with a 5" barrel and single "NZ" stamping, and had originally been a .38 S&W caliber with a 5" barrel. Someone bored it out to accept .38Spl. It had no caliber markings and had been a standard, polished/blued finish which had turned brown. Since the .38 S&W is a fatter cartridge than the .38 Spl, the cases ballooned out when fired, they looked like a bottle-necked .38... Not sure how safe it was to actually fire! Anyway it had "NZ" mark and except for the caliber looked just like the 1935 M&P in my collection.

 

[SUPER X]

I owned a similar Smith with a 5" barrel and single "NZ" stamping, and had originally been a .38 S&W caliber with a 5" barrel. Someone bored it out to accept .38Spl. It had no caliber markings and had been a standard, polished/blued finish which had turned brown. Since the .38 S&W is a fatter cartridge than the .38 Spl, the cases ballooned out when fired, they looked like a bottle-necked .38... Not sure how safe it was to actually fire! Anyway it had "NZ" mark and except for the caliber looked just like the 1935 M&P in my collection.

38sw projectile is commonly .362. The 38 special is commonly .357 .
It couldnt have been to accurate rattling down the barrel .LOL