Russian troop build up on the Ukrainian border ...

[Member 52301]

Remember why the first gulf war started? The Iraqis claimed that the Kuwaitis were horizontal drilling into their territory. Years later it came out that they were.

THIS is true!

Cate

 

[wired]

Whether Americans have a nuanced understanding of ethnicity or not, those Russian-speaking Russians not in Russia are squatters. I guess scumbags from New Jersey deserve Boca as much as Russia deserves wherever. Either way it is just trashy. You can take the girl out of Russia...

Like I said . For the most part Americans have no understanding of ethnicity. To us we equate it with race. Not the same. A battle lost or a massacre 500 years ago is as fresh as something that happened yesterday especially when you get into hotly contested areas like the Balkans .

 

[monkeybutler]

That ain't cool dude!

Depending on the source, there are between 1/5 to 1/3 of the population of the Ukraine who are ethnic Russian, ain't no way around that, they were born there, and generally go back many generations, and they have just as much claim or right to live there as any, same as you have here, living where you live!
Calling them Scumbags is pretty asinine of you, just because they live in the Ukraine, not even by choice, simply because they don't live in predominantly Russian held areas makes them an enemy, WOW!

I don't think many understand the situation here. Many who live there WANT to re integrate with Russia, they got a taste of what life would be like with out Russia, under the crime bosses, and found it wanting, and they decided they needed Russia to help them find the path forward! Most others embraced a life with out Russia meddling in their business, (despite much/most of the corruption coming from Russia) And they saw a chance to become something greater then they ever dreamed possible under the thumb of Russia, but the crime lords from the Kremlin and Putin crushed that dream! Add to this, Europe and the U.S Seriously squandered their chance to help "The Paris of the East" evolve away from the old Soviet way, and here we are now!

For the Record, I , my wife, and most of my family are Slavic Ukrainian, we go back to the 1600's and before, we were among the first 300 families to settle Texas ahead of it's statehood, and thusly are known as Texians, and we are quite proud of that heritage!

Yeah, and a ton of the Russians in Ukraine are relatively recent arrivals in specific, more prosperous areas, where they are essentially taking the place by adverse possession, with the backing of the Russian military and Vladdie. If that is not scummy behavior, what is? Russia has a long history of acting in not so nice ways to Ukraine. Holodomor, anyone? Pretty lousy if you ask me. If you have Ukrainian ancestry, you should be more upset with what Russia is doing than I am. Are there some Russians who have been there a while, such that it is their home? Sure. But that in no way justifies the broader Russian actions.

But at least they aren't from New Jersey LOL.

 

[arakboss]

What is SWIFT and why it might be the weapon Russia fears most

Some are calling it the "nuclear option."

www.cnn.com

 

[arakboss]

Nord Stream 2 will not move forward if Russia invades Ukraine, US says

The controversial Nord Stream 2 pipeline will not move forward if Russia invades Ukraine, the chief spokesman for the U.S. State Department said in an interview Wednesday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[OregonForest]

Yeah, and a ton of the Russians in Ukraine are relatively recent arrivals in specific, more prosperous areas, where they are essentially taking the place by adverse possession, with the backing of the Russian military and Vladdie. If that is not scummy behavior, what is? Russia has a long history of acting in not so nice ways to Ukraine. Holodomor, anyone? Pretty lousy if you ask me. If you have Ukrainian ancestry, you should be more upset with what Russia is doing than I am. Are there some Russians who have been there a while, such that it is their home? Sure. But that in no way justifies the broader Russian actions.

But at least they aren't from New Jersey LOL.

From what I have heard, Ukrainians dont blame the holodomor on "Russia" at all. Most Ukrainians seem to blame it on soviet leaders at the time (in particular, they blame it on party members of a certain ethnicity... and this happens to be the reason why there are so many neo nazis in Ukraine today, the holodomor is basically their rallying cry).

 

[monkeybutler]

From what I have heard, Ukrainians dont blame the holodomor on "Russia" at all. Most Ukrainians seem to blame it on soviet leaders at the time (in particular, they blame it on party members of a certain ethnicity... and this happens to be the reason why there are so many neo nazis in Ukraine today, the holodomor is basically their rallying cry).

My understanding is that many interpret it as an intentional act against Ukraine/Ukrainians, directed by the central Soviet powers, who were.... Russian... I simply cannot imagine that detail being lost given the emphasis on ethnicity which runs through 20th century conflicts. Especially in Ukraine which had fallen under Russification policies.

I have seen mentions of Nazis trying to turn it into their own message, but that did not appear to be the dominant thread. Apparently reporting on the holodomor is still quite incomplete, so perhaps that is a bigger 'thing' than it immediately appears.

Looks like I have more reading to do.

 

[MichaelH]

Like I said . For the most part Americans have no understanding of ethnicity. To us we equate it with race. Not the same. A battle lost or a massacre 500 years ago is as fresh as something that happened yesterday especially when you get into hotly contested areas like the Balkans .

The ability of humans to use and be influenced by an irrelevant grudge that should have no meaning to those alive today (e.g. the entire middle east) is something that I have trouble understanding. Obviously there are some American examples, and I can acknowledge that the basis for some intergenerational grudges may have negative impacts on those holding the grudges today (e.g. if I was a Native American I think I might be justified being pissed off at us land grabbing colonizers). However, I think that because I was raised in nation of immigrants that were, over time, forced to abandon those grudges to assimilate to achieve success, I really have a hard time grasping the mindset of those who would be influenced by those sorts of grudges.

 

[Horatius]

The ability of humans to use and be influenced by an irrelevant grudge that should have no meaning to those alive today (e.g. the entire middle east) is something that I have trouble understanding. Obviously there are some American examples, and I can acknowledge that the basis for some intergenerational grudges may have negative impacts on those holding the grudges today (e.g. if I was a Native American I think I might be justified being pissed off at us land grabbing colonizers). However, I think that because I was raised in nation of immigrants that were, over time, forced to abandon those grudges to assimilate to achieve success, I really have a hard time grasping the mindset of those who would be influenced by those sorts of grudges.

when I was a Kid in the 60's and 70's we were taught we were a melting pot!

 

[wired]

The ability of humans to use and be influenced by an irrelevant grudge that should have no meaning to those alive today (e.g. the entire middle east) is something that I have trouble understanding. Obviously there are some American examples, and I can acknowledge that the basis for some intergenerational grudges may have negative impacts on those holding the grudges today (e.g. if I was a Native American I think I might be justified being pissed off at us land grabbing colonizers). However, I think that because I was raised in nation of immigrants that were, over time, forced to abandon those grudges to assimilate to achieve success, I really have a hard time grasping the mindset of those who would be influenced by those sorts of grudges.

A lot of that comes from the English tradition. England was a melting pot long before American became one . Italians (Romans) , Germans, French , Norse and their slaves ( Slavs from what is now Russia made up 10% of the English population in 1000 AD ) etc over a few thousand years. It became hard to keep track of all that kinship stuff. As you get further into Eastern Europe that mixing of cultures stops being such an influence . It is hard for us Americans to wrap our heads around it but its as real to those people as daylight. Everyone should be like us , right?

 

[MichaelH]

when I was a Kid in the 60's and 70's we were taught we were a melting pot!

We are, but never 100%. I'm a full on Northwest European Mutt whose ancestors were impressed Hessian mercenaries who went AWOL (or maybe surrendered or were captured) and joined up with the continental army, Belgian Catholics, and French Hugenots who moved to England and then here. I don't have any real ethnic connection to particular heritage or ethnicity...I only feel American. When I look at the Baltics and the Middle East, I'm damn grateful to be American. I only hope the recent political polarization, rural vs. city, conservative vs. liberal, etc., mindset doesn't really create that kind of political and social instability here.

What we forget about that melting pot experience is that newer groups of immigrants have always maintained a sense of cultural and ethnic identity upon ariving as a way to stick together and have community when not yet accepted by everyone else already here who have already assimilated. Then their kids assimilate and though they love grandma's Italian/German/Greek cooking their ethnic identity is pretty weak compared to that share identity of being American. Three generations later we don't remember that at one time pushing for Columbus Day celebrations would be what we now call identity politics.

I think I've gotten off topic.

 

[MichaelH]

A lot of that comes from the English tradition. England was a melting pot long before American became one . Italians (Romans) , Germans, French , Norse and their slaves ( Slavs from what is now Russia made up 10% of the English population in 1000 AD ) etc over a few thousand years. It became hard to keep track of all that kinship stuff. As you get further into Eastern Europe that mixing of cultures stops being such an influence . It is hard for us Americans to wrap our heads around it but its as real to those people as daylight. Everyone should be like us , right?

Yes. It's fine to eat your great great grandparents food and follow their particular holiday traditions--variety is the spice of life--but it's fine not to hold their grudges.

 

[Horatius]

Yes. It's fine to eat your great great grandparents food and follow their particular holiday traditions--variety is the spice of life--but it's fine not to hold their grudges.

unless of course they were from south of the mason dixie! My Point was we used to encourage National Pride, Now the great uniter has turned out to be no such thing. You talk about not holding grudges but isn't that all politics have become! I am an MLK believer, content of character. But don't pee on me and tell me to tolerate it!

 

[arakboss]

Defend Chernobyl During an Invasion? Why Bother, Some Ukrainians Ask. (Published 2022)

Ukraine has initiated a defensive strategy for the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, one of the most radioactive places on Earth, which lies on the shortest path between Russia and Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Diamondback]

Defend Chernobyl During an Invasion? Why Bother, Some Ukrainians Ask. (Published 2022)

Ukraine has initiated a defensive strategy for the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, one of the most radioactive places on Earth, which lies on the shortest path between Russia and Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv.

www.nytimes.com

Why?
1. Defense-in-Depth. It stands between the Kremlin's jackboots and their capital. What I'd personally be tempted to do would be set a strong first line on the eastern half perimeter with instructions to wear the Reds down as much as they can then fall back and reinforce the equally defended westside, turn the Exclusion Zone into a killbox knowing there are few to no friendlies in it.

2. Environmental concerns. I wouldn't trust the Russkies not to monkeywrench the containment structure even knowing that it'll hurt them as much as it will Ukraine's breadbasket--pre-'86, the Pripyat area was some of the most productive farmland in the USSR IIRC.

 

[The Heretic]

Hactivists say they hacked Belarus rail system to stop Russian military buildup

If confirmed, the attack would be one of the first times ransomware has been used this way.

arstechnica.com

 

[monkeybutler]

Hactivists say they hacked Belarus rail system to stop Russian military buildup

If confirmed, the attack would be one of the first times ransomware has been used this way.

arstechnica.com

Yeah just wait until the state-sponsored hackers in Russia get spun up... I am sure you have a generator, though...

 

[monkeybutler]

Well this is pretty interesting.

Some highlights....

"...non-Russians, including Ukrainian citizens who still reside in occupied Crimea but who refused to obtain a Russian passport, can now be stripped of their property..."

"Since 2014, Russia has been employing traditional Soviet resettlement practices and forcibly changing the demographic composition of the population in Crimea."

"At the same time, Russia has been actively trying to increase the size of its "loyal" population by promoting and encouraging the in-migration of its citizens to Crimea. According to the Office of the Federal State Statistics Service in Crimea and Sevastopol, since 2014, 205,559 Russians moved to Crimea..."

https://jamestown.org/program/demog...migration-as-part-of-russias-hybrid-strategy/

But it's all great, right? Let's just snuggle up with little Vladdie and give him a nice back rub.

 

[EHJ]

Well this is pretty interesting.

Some highlights....

"...non-Russians, including Ukrainian citizens who still reside in occupied Crimea but who refused to obtain a Russian passport, can now be stripped of their property..."

"Since 2014, Russia has been employing traditional Soviet resettlement practices and forcibly changing the demographic composition of the population in Crimea."

"At the same time, Russia has been actively trying to increase the size of its "loyal" population by promoting and encouraging the in-migration of its citizens to Crimea. According to the Office of the Federal State Statistics Service in Crimea and Sevastopol, since 2014, 205,559 Russians moved to Crimea..."

https://jamestown.org/program/demog...migration-as-part-of-russias-hybrid-strategy/

But it's all great, right? Let's just snuggle up with little Vladdie and give him a nice back rub.

Am I the only one who read that - and swapped the words "Russia" with "Mexico"...?

 

[The Heretic]