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raftman

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Got a good laugh from all of the bellicose rhetoric from all the folks who evidently got their Russian Studies degrees from CNN University. Every time I hear cartoonish insights like, “they’re trying to regain all of their Soviet territory” or some such, I have to think these are the same rubes that bought into, “they hate us for our freedom” a generation ago. IMO this neocon agenda stuff is more dangerous to the US than Russia itself is.
 
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Got a good laugh from all of the bellicose rhetoric from all the folks who evidently got their Russian Studies degrees from CNN University. Every time I hear cartoonish insights like, “they’re trying to regain all of their Soviet territory” or some such, I have to think these are the same rubes that bought into, “they hate us for our freedom” a generation ago. IMO this neocon agenda stuff is more dangerous to the US than Russia itself is.
Yeah, I remember the first time I was in Russia thinking "This isnt what I expected at all." .
 

GWS

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Got a good laugh from all of the bellicose rhetoric from all the folks who evidently got their Russian Studies degrees from CNN University. Every time I hear cartoonish insights like, “they’re trying to regain all of their Soviet territory” or some such, I have to think these are the same rubes that bought into, “they hate us for our freedom” a generation ago. IMO this neocon agenda stuff is more dangerous to the US than Russia itself is.
So what do you think Putin is doing?
 

raftman

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So what do you think Putin is doing?
Reacting to the fact the neocons essentially believe Russia has no right to exist. In this very thread we’ve had such half-witted (to be charitable to the commenter in question) remarks as “Russia is a cancer” (presumably this means it needs to be eradicated, no?). This isn’t just the opinion of a random person in the internet though, it’s basically been our foreign policy for a long time: If it’s good for Russia it’s bad for us, and vice versa... and it has caused far more problems than for us than it’s been worth.
 

GWS

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Reacting to the fact the neocons essentially believe Russia has no right to exist. In this very thread we’ve had such half-witted (to be charitable to the commenter in question) remarks as “Russia is a cancer” (presumably this means it needs to be eradicated, no?). This isn’t just the opinion of a random person in the internet though, it’s basically been our foreign policy for a long time: If it’s good for Russia it’s bad for us, and vice versa... and it has caused far more problems than for us than it’s been worth.
The neocons have gotten us into a variety of adventures that we didn't need that cost us way too much blood and treasure, always under the notion that America needs to be the world's policeman. To stand up to evil and protect America's interests. However, wouldn't you say that Putin's annexation of the Crimea and his posturing on the Ukraine's border gives some validation to the neocon's views?
 

raftman

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The neocons have gotten us into a variety of adventures that we didn't need that cost us way too much blood and treasure, always under the notion that America needs to be the world's policeman. To stand up to evil and protect America's interests. However, wouldn't you say that Putin's annexation of the Crimea and his posturing on the Ukraine's border gives some validation to the neocon's views?
Definitely not.

The “annexation” resulted from the fact that Ukraine’s legitimate (like it or not) government was overthrown in a violent coup mere months before the Ukrainian election was due to take place. Representatives of the US government were unambiguously involved. Russia faced the prospect of losing the port and naval base they were leasing on Crimea (that is, there had always been a large Russian military presence on the peninsula), coupled with the fact that most Crimeans consider themselves Russian anyways and would rather be part of Russia (again, like it or not). It’s really the expected result and we would not have reacted differently if in their shoes.
 
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It isn't wise to assume that an army cannot move successfully through difficult area. The Germans successfully moved through the Ardennes Forest twice in WWII. The first time lead to the surrender of France and defeat of the British forces. The second time was the Battle of the Bulge, which resulted in 89,000 US casualties.

History is full of examples where defenses collapsed because someone assumed that a route was impassable, but wasn't.

Edit to add: Since when has the NY Times ever been right?
 

monkeybutler

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Reacting to the fact the neocons essentially believe Russia has no right to exist. In this very thread we’ve had such half-witted (to be charitable to the commenter in question) remarks as “Russia is a cancer” (presumably this means it needs to be eradicated, no?). This isn’t just the opinion of a random person in the internet though, it’s basically been our foreign policy for a long time: If it’s good for Russia it’s bad for us, and vice versa... and it has caused far more problems than for us than it’s been worth.
Wow, I had no idea I was a neocon. Thanks for sorting that out for me. Thanks also for the charitable "half-witted."

No one said Russia has no right to exist and should be eradicated. You made up that drama. In fact you have created an entire cartoon world. Why there's Tyler Durden, and shirtless Vladdie on his motorbike. Ooh, let's put him in a little Greek sailor's cap to go with the chaps. We can put him right over by the windmills, er, dragons.

I did refer to Russia as a virus. That is an appropriate behavioral metaphor. Perhaps you should do some reading on Russification. Maybe ask some people from Latvia (Lithuania, Poland, et cetera) how much fun it is to be Russified. They loved it so much they joined NATO. Maybe you should talk to some dispossessed Ukrainians from Crimea who no longer own their own homes, and are having their ethnicity erased. Maybe you could talk to a friend of mine from Kazakhstan whose family name was forcibly changed to something Russian sounding.

Russia's behavior is, and has been, terrible. This view has nothing to do with whatever ridiculous caricature of US policy your imagination falsely associates with me. Place your assumptions elsewhere. Somewhere without light perhaps.
 
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Horatius

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Definitely not.

The “annexation” resulted from the fact that Ukraine’s legitimate (like it or not) government was overthrown in a violent coup mere months before the Ukrainian election was due to take place. Representatives of the US government were unambiguously involved. Russia faced the prospect of losing the port and naval base they were leasing on Crimea (that is, there had always been a large Russian military presence on the peninsula), coupled with the fact that most Crimeans consider themselves Russian anyways and would rather be part of Russia (again, like it or not). It’s really the expected result and we would not have reacted differently if in their shoes.
panama canal
 
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Wow, I had no idea I was a neocon. Thanks for sorting that out for me. Thanks also for the charitable "half-witted."

No one said Russia has no right to exist and should be eradicated. You made up that drama. In fact you have created an entire cartoon world. Why there's Tyler Durden, and shirtless Vladdie on his motorbike. Ooh, let's put him in a little Greek sailor's cap to go with the chaps. We can put him right over by the windmills, er, dragons.

I did refer to Russia as a virus. That is an appropriate behavioral metaphor. Perhaps you should do some reading on Russification. Maybe ask some people from Latvia (Lithuania, Poland, et cetera) how much fun it is to be Russified. They loved it so much they joined NATO. Maybe you should talk to some dispossessed Ukrainians from Crimea who no longer own their own homes, and are having their ethnicity erased. Maybe you could talk to a friend of mine from Kazakhstan whose family name was forcibly changed to something Russian sounding.

Russia's behavior is, and has been, terrible. This view has nothing to do with whatever ridiculous caricature of US policy your imagination falsely associates with me. Place your assumptions elsewhere. Somewhere without light perhaps.
You forgot to mention the rape of Berlin, anyways, l use a swarm of locusts to describe what things look like after the Russians have moved through
 

raftman

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You forgot to mention the rape of Berlin, anyways, l use a swarm of locusts to describe what things look like after the Russians have moved through
It’s an unfortunate thing that it happened, but, realistically, Germany got off easy after what was done to Russia, Belarus, and the like. You probably know this so I won’t speculate as what motivates the lack of objectivity.
 
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