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Siglvr

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I believe that we have added 14 countries to Nato, Russia's neighbors, since George Bushs had verbally pledged to Russia that we would not do that. Russia wants one thing right now, one thing: a pledge that we will not add Ukraine to Nato. That's what they want, a written guarantee. The US will not give it. Instead, we are actively working to add Nato members and destabilize the area.

We earlier (2014) helped overthrow the democratically elected Ukrainian President and put in someone acceptable to the US. "Someone" coordinated the riots, Russia says it was us and there is evidence that it was. Great read called "How and why the U.S. Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine" should get folks some much needed background.
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/...ernment-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity#End_of_Yanukovych’s_presidency_and_new_government

Turkey says we tried and almost did the same to them, but that coup failed. Someone" coordinated the riots. Erdogan says it was us and there is evidence that it was.https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/7/15/turkeys-failed-coup-attempt-all-you-need-to-know

Russia believes we just tried to do the same to Kazakhstan and that US agencies were behind the many deaths in the recent destabilizing riots. Someone" coordinated the riots. Russia says it was us and there is evidence that it in fact was.. https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/07...akhstan-amid-protests-over-soaring-gas-prices

All of these (per US media) "aggressive" Russian troops are stationed inside of their own country, the same if not true of the United States. The US has been surrounding Russia with military bases. Recently President Modi of India came calling and the US appears to have pulled him out of Russias friendship circle. The Russians are worried, and they have every right to be. It is the US that is pushing for war, not Russia. The rumors are that the US is moving tanks into Europe (Greece) for over a month as if for a Russian invasion. Tanks are not a defensive tool.

Our media is not being truthful. They buried the Afghanistan debacle. Our allies in England condemned President Bidens poor conduct as there was no joint planning and the US walked out the door leaving a mess. Top generals said Biden ignored their planning which would have avoided that mess. Does any think that fleeing Afghanistan and leaving a Fed up mess showed that we had a chance in hell of taking on Russia? Pfft.


Interesting take by General Flynn: https://www.westernjournal.com/exclusive-gen-flynn-biden-might-get-hundreds-millions-killed-ukraine/

Quote: "Let’s put the current conflict into a historical context. If President John Kennedy was justified in risking war to prevent nuclear missiles from being installed in Cuba in 1961, then why exactly is Russian President Vladimir Putin being reckless in risking war to prevent NATO weapons from being installed in Ukraine in 2022? Would any great nation allow the development of such a threat on its border?"
 
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Siglvr

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Of course not Direct drive. I served honorably in the US military, as did my father (WW2), and his father before him (WW1). That does not prevent me from looking at this dispassionately.

Have you read this yet? https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/...ernment-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ That's Russia's next door neighbor. Not ours. Ukraine is not worth a single American life. For what would we need to devastate our country? For a bunch of corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs? Is that what people want?

We haven't finish paying off the last nonsense (Afghanistan) or the nonsense before that (Iraq, $4 trillion). Debt per taxpayer is now $238,000 per taxpayer. If you pay taxes that is your share. https://usdebtclock.org/ What kind of insanity is it who would want to increase that and likely devastate our country? For what? I don't get it.

Check out the 2014 Modern Diplomacy read up there which I linked. Good stuff.

Edit: One more worth reading: https://www.strategic-culture.org/n...nd-nato-partners-inciting-war-against-russia/
 
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Victoria Noodleman, the architect of the 2014 Ukraine fiasco is back at he state department "advising" our installed president. Whatever Putin ends up doing, we won't know what his objective is until the operation is complete. All the military hardware parked in open fields, out in the snow with no one to man is it is for a distraction, which is working.
 

DirectDrive

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Ukraine is not worth a single American life.
Gen. Schwarzkopf once said a similar thing when asked by a reporter if he was going to chase the Iraqi army all the way back to Baghdad.
It went something like this....
"To drive down the streets of Baghdad is not worth one American life."

I'll always agree with that.
 
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.... when they get done rearranging the foliage I think that we should get them to pop for a motocross track with extra ruts and an awesome polish sausage Cafe....
 

arakboss

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It could also be said that Germany has been highly involved with Russia for the last 30 years or so. Stores all over Russia are full of German goods, especially processed foods. German built factories stretch from St Petersburg to Eastern Siberia and employ millions of Russians. Some of the largest parts suppliers for German industries are in Russia. Russia is the largest wheat exporter in the world by far and most of that supplies Germany. Russian gas heats German homes, Their oil fills German cars.
Highly involved is correct:

 

gmerkt

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I believe that we have added 14 countries to Nato, Russia's neighbors, since George Bushs had verbally pledged to Russia that we would not do that. Russia wants one thing right now, one thing: a pledge that we will not add Ukraine to Nato. That's what they want, a written guarantee. The US will not give it. Instead, we are actively working to add Nato members and destabilize the area.

We earlier (2014) helped overthrow the democratically elected Ukrainian President and put in someone acceptable to the US. "Someone" coordinated the riots, Russia says it was us and there is evidence that it was. Great read called "How and why the U.S. Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine" should get folks some much needed background.
We've heard about online Russian disinformation campaigns.

It isn't the US that has occupied Crimea and eastern Ukraine, it's Russia. It was also Russia that has enabled so-called separatist forces in eastern Ukraine.

Putin is on a campaign to re-acquire all the former Soviet republics that were lost in 1991. Ukraine is only one element in that effort.

If it wasn't so dangerous, Putin's insecurity claim would be laughable. It's Hitlerian aggression all over again. Neither the US nor NATO are trying to invade Russia.
 

gmerkt

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I will say, if and when the situation in Ukraine blows up, oil and gold may go way up. Both of which will directly affect the income of the Russian government because it is a big source of both.
 
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Highly involved is correct:

It goes WAY beyond oil and gas. In the US we tend to look at Russia as a isolated country who makes nothing anyone wants to buy except natural resources and never really got into the country except for a quick get rich quick foray after the Soviet Union collapsed. The Germans on the other hand went full bore into Russia economically after they stabilized their own country after the wall came down and they reunified with East Germany. They sunk billions and billions into Russian industries and not just propping up failing Soviet firms. All we hear about are the pipelines but its really so much more than that to the Germans. The Russian factories are their version of our Maquialdora .
 

Siglvr

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We've heard about online Russian disinformation campaigns.

It isn't the US that has occupied Crimea and eastern Ukraine, it's Russia. It was also Russia that has enabled so-called separatist forces in eastern Ukraine.

Putin is on a campaign to re-acquire all the former Soviet republics that were lost in 1991. Ukraine is only one element in that effort.

If it wasn't so dangerous, Putin's insecurity claim would be laughable. It's Hitlerian aggression all over again. Neither the US nor NATO are trying to invade Russia.
No campaign have been as effective as the American disinformation campaign it appears. Your claims are all examined, well address'd and rejected in this Revolver Article linked below. Of particular interest is the George Kennan quotes. Kennan was as anti-communist as any American and famous for being the architect of our cold war policy to confront the USSR. Please read it and let me know your thoughts: https://www.revolver.news/2022/01/h...merican-empire-risks-nuclear-war-with-russia/

Take care all:
 

Stomper

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I have direct descendants who fought in these 3 wars noted below. They mostly started with this attitude which some of you so casually display on this thread. I'm not putting this up to demean anyone, I only ask you to consider these things and look at how great peace has been for our loved ones and our country:

Civil War (North Version): We'll kick those southern bubblegum's and be done within a week.
Civil War (South Version) We'll kick those northern bubblegum's and be done within a week.
RESULT: 620,000 dead, 1,500,000 injured, everyone -Civilian and military both, thought: "this is hell". And it was they all agreed, for 5 long years. Their world was shattered.

WW1 - This will be over and done soon. We'll finish those idiots off right quick and easy. It was neither quick nor easy.
RESULT: 37million estimated war dead (civi and military). The world was shattered.

WW2 - This will be over and done quick. We'll finish those idiots off right quick and easy. It was neither quick nor easy.
RESULT: According to Russian government figures, USSR losses within postwar borders now stand at 26.6 million, including 8 to 9 million due to famine and disease. They were the "winners" as far as territory advances and control. The United States got in late and still, our world was shattered. Everyone involved, civi and military, were ready for it to end and never occur again.

We have a tendency to overinflate and ignore how things really were. Things sucked during those conflicts, for the homefront as well as the warriors involved.

May we have peace, and resist the urge to denigrate the Russians who are fearful of us talking over their next door neighbor. Munitions have evolved since WW2 such that the casualties in the next conflict would be horrific. Your sons, your daughters, your dogs and goldfish all slaughtered in the worst manner imaginable. The US administration is causing this one, not Russia. We are doing it to them. I don't know why, but this is on us 100 percent. Should we continue along this reckless path, it's going to be needless and horrific. Not just for them, but for us.
Doncha know….


A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

-Joseph Stalin




There is an inner club of global elites that all of us aren’t invited too. We are merely “meat-sacks” which are a resource to them in order to make money.
 

ATCclears

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I have direct descendants who fought in these 3 wars noted below. They mostly started with this attitude which some of you so casually display on this thread. I'm not putting this up to demean anyone, I only ask you to consider these things and look at how great peace has been for our loved ones and our country:

Civil War (North Version): We'll kick those southern bubblegum's and be done within a week.
Civil War (South Version) We'll kick those northern bubblegum's and be done within a week.
RESULT: 620,000 dead, 1,500,000 injured, everyone -Civilian and military both, thought: "this is hell". And it was they all agreed, for 5 long years. Their world was shattered.

WW1 - This will be over and done soon. We'll finish those idiots off right quick and easy. It was neither quick nor easy.
RESULT: 37million estimated war dead (civi and military). The world was shattered.

WW2 - This will be over and done quick. We'll finish those idiots off right quick and easy. It was neither quick nor easy.
RESULT: According to Russian government figures, USSR losses within postwar borders now stand at 26.6 million, including 8 to 9 million due to famine and disease. They were the "winners" as far as territory advances and control. The United States got in late and still, our world was shattered. Everyone involved, civi and military, were ready for it to end and never occur again.

We have a tendency to overinflate and ignore how things really were. Things sucked during those conflicts, for the homefront as well as the warriors involved.

May we have peace, and resist the urge to denigrate the Russians who are fearful of us talking over their next door neighbor. Munitions have evolved since WW2 such that the casualties in the next conflict would be horrific. Your sons, your daughters, your dogs and goldfish all slaughtered in the worst manner imaginable. The US administration is causing this one, not Russia. We are doing it to them. I don't know why, but this is on us 100 percent. Should we continue along this reckless path, it's going to be needless and horrific. Not just for them, but for us.

@Siglvr agree. My grandfather was killed in action in WW2. The result for my grandmother, mother (only 2 at the time), and uncle was a period of severe poverty, and then a marriage to a man (perhaps out of necessity) who was not kind to my mother or uncle.


A L Robinson gravesite in Italy 06.jpg
 
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