Russian troop build up on the Ukrainian border ...

[wired]

Кто такая Наташа?

Theres only one Natasha.

 

[Horatius]

Theres only one Natasha.

I thought it was just China that only had one girl left in the country?

 

[The Heretic]

The failure of all these past engagements is that by trying to weed out combatants from non combatants when they all look the same is impossible. You either have to commit to wiping the slate completely clean or not bothering at all.

I get the feeling that if Russia goes into the Ukraine completely, they may go ahead and just go for genocide of the century. With so many of the populace willing to fight, that may be necessary.

 

[wired]

I get the feeling that if Russia goes into the Ukraine completely, they may go ahead and just go for genocide of the century. With so many of the populace willing to fight, that may be necessary.

You are way overestimating the will of the Ukrainians to fully engage the Russian Army. It will be a cake walk.

 

[The Heretic]

You are way overestimating the will of the Ukrainians to fully engage the Russian Army. It will be a cake walk.

I guess the proof will be in the eating of the pudding

 

[BrentN]

If it happens, I would expect a cakewalk as well. Any support for Ukraine will be token at best.

 

[gmerkt]

You are way overestimating the will of the Ukrainians to fully engage the Russian Army.

They are gladly taking our assistance money, but I think they will run when the balloon goes up.

What most Americans don't get is that Putin is geopolitically very ambitious and is embarked on a mission to reconstruct the old Soviet Union territory. He's been hammering away on Ukraine for a while. He's got Belarus in his pocket already. He's been creeping south into Georgia for years. He's pulling strings in Kazahkstan. Under cover of "mutual defense alliances" with the nominally independent Stans, lately we've seen him send troops into Kyrgistan. Russia has horned into the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, allowing Karabakh to split off. We've involved the three Baltic states in NATO, that may slow him down there but his mouth is watering to get them back. With the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad behind NATO lines, they've got a real foot in the door there. The Suwalki gap is a significant strategic disadvantage to NATO; the three Baltic states could easily be cut off.

The use of economic "sanctions" to discourage Russian aggression and expansionism is a pathetic joke. It's the solution that weak-suck Western countries come up with when they inevitably take the gutless way out. And the Russians know it and despise us all the more.

 

[Ura-Ki]

They are gladly taking our assistance money, but I think they will run when the balloon goes up.

What most Americans don't get is that Putin is geopolitically very ambitious and is embarked on a mission to reconstruct the old Soviet Union territory. He's been hammering away on Ukraine for a while. He's got Belarus in his pocket already. He's been creeping south into Georgia for years. He's pulling strings in Kazahkstan. Under cover of "mutual defense alliances" with the nominally independent Stans, lately we've seen him send troops into Kyrgistan. Russia has horned into the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, allowing Karabakh to split off. We've involved the three Baltic states in NATO, that may slow him down there but his mouth is watering to get them back. With the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad behind NATO lines, they've got a real foot in the door there. The Suwalki gap is a significant strategic disadvantage to NATO; the three Baltic states could easily be cut off.

The use of economic "sanctions" to discourage Russian aggression and expansionism is a pathetic joke. It's the solution that weak-suck Western countries come up with when they inevitably take the gutless way out. And the Russians know it and despise us all the more.

This right here! Wanna know how it turns out, Tom Clancy pretty much nailed way back it in 2013! Just about every thing he wrote has happened, in almost the exact order he wrote it, almost like Putin said hey, Game Plan! Only it didn't work in the end, NATO is the catch, if we decide to allow Ukraine to join NATO all bets are off, and Putins bluff is called! Russia is flat broke, the Ukraine is almost flat broke, and there is very little gross national product leaving Russian territories,, most to Germany or China, squeeze that tit, it's game over!

 

[gmerkt]

NATO is the catch, if we decide to allow Ukraine to join NATO all bets are off, and Putins bluff is called

For governments of Western countries, this is a slippery slope. Parts of Ukraine are already occupied by Russia. Of course the Russian takeover of Crimea is well known. The southeastern corner of Ukraine, the Donbass basin is also occupied by Russian proxies if not outright Russian forces. If NATO membership was to be granted to Ukraine, what step would be next? Maintaining independence for what's left of Ukraine, or trying recover lost territory that rightfully belongs to it? Russia is grabbing the most valuable parts of Ukraine; with these areas in Russian hands, they figure a greatly weakened rump remains of it will fall like rotten fruit from a tree. It would take major huevos for Western governments to get Ukraine into NATO, a great deal more to recover lost territories. This would be a unique challenge for NATO; it's always been about defense, it's never had to go on the offensive to recover lost areas. It would be a legal mess to begin with, as those areas were lost prior to membership, I can see that being in court in The Hague for about 20 years first. No, I don't see Western will to fight for saving Ukraine. Ukraine is a very big deal for Russia, it's the Great Buffer Zone that Russia back to the Czars has always prized. Putin has hundreds of years of mental block on this one, he still fears a Western invasion. Reality is, there isn't a Napolean or Hitler anymore. Or any Western will to invade anything. Putin is the Hitler.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Here in lies the problem, and why it would be pretty easy for Putin to take! There are 3 distinct people's inhabiting the Ukraine, Slavics, Russians, and Russian lineage Ukrainians, the two counter forces are the Slavic Ukrainians, and the Russian Ukrainians, the lineage don't really count, or really know which way they want to go. The biggest question would be, who makes up the larger percentages and would that be enough to push back? Russia is dying, faster then the Ukraine, Russia absolutely needs the Ukraine, needs their blood to continue to exist as Russians, the Ukraine is also dying, not enough live births against the numbers of old that are passing on! It's a unique situation, and one that is quietly driving this whole thing! Outside of the industrial heart of the Ukraine, which measures more then three times the size of Russias, there is also that as incentive, and finally Savastapol is one of the very few sea port areas available to the land locked countries, so, for Russia to ever have a serious naval force, it absolutely needs Ukraine and it's access to the Black Sea!

So, how does Putin take what he thinks is right, against all those who would resist, knowing he would have to kill not only Russians, but Lineage Russians as well, further eroding his very limited "Breeding Stocks" which he absolutely needs! Add to that, the former Warsaw Countries which Putin also has a keen eye towards bringing back to the fold, that paints a very bad picture, one which NATO could not ignore!
What's ironic is: both the eastern Stanz steppes and Siberian Oblasts could fully support Putin's needs and desires, with out taking the Ukraine, and in fact, would still give him access to the Med, through both the White Sea, and Sea of Azov, and it would also make for a much shorter and more direct route for the oil and gas lines to China which he seriously wants, until China screws him, and they will! This is all short sighted, arrogant, and dangerous!

 

[American123]

For governments of Western countries, this is a slippery slope. Parts of Ukraine are already occupied by Russia. Of course the Russian takeover of Crimea is well known. The southeastern corner of Ukraine, the Donbass basin is also occupied by Russian proxies if not outright Russian forces. If NATO membership was to be granted to Ukraine, what step would be next? Maintaining independence for what's left of Ukraine, or trying recover lost territory that rightfully belongs to it? Russia is grabbing the most valuable parts of Ukraine; with these areas in Russian hands, they figure a greatly weakened rump remains of it will fall like rotten fruit from a tree. It would take major huevos for Western governments to get Ukraine into NATO, a great deal more to recover lost territories. This would be a unique challenge for NATO; it's always been about defense, it's never had to go on the offensive to recover lost areas. It would be a legal mess to begin with, as those areas were lost prior to membership, I can see that being in court in The Hague for about 20 years first. No, I don't see Western will to fight for saving Ukraine. Ukraine is a very big deal for Russia, it's the Great Buffer Zone that Russia back to the Czars has always prized. Putin has hundreds of years of mental block on this one, he still fears a Western invasion. Reality is, there isn't a Napolean or Hitler anymore. Or any Western will to invade anything. Putin is the Hitler.

I'm curious what has Russia's covid cult been like so far? Because if we are making comparisons to Hitler, people in our own government who are publicly demonizing the unvaccinated, specific religions, or races of people bear darn close resemblance to the 1930's Hitler.

 

[gmerkt]

I'm curious what has Russia's covid cult been like so far? Because if we are making comparisons to Hitler, people in our own government who are publicly demonizing the unvaccinated, specific religions, or races of people bear darn close resemblance to the 1930's Hitler.

I wasn't addressing Putin's domestic policies. The Hitler comparison relates to his incremental aggression and his false claims of Western hazard to Russian defense. And taking advantage of weak Western politicians.

Re. Covid, sorry, I'm not interested in getting into what could be a highly charged discussion about public health policy.

 

[The Heretic]

I wasn't addressing Putin's domestic policies. The Hitler comparison relates to his incremental aggression and his false claims of Western hazard to Russian defense. And taking advantage of weak Western politicians.

And, IIRC, the "mutual defense" agreements - something Hitler did with countries Germany invaded and took over.

 

[The Heretic]

Mud could complicate possible Russian plans for an invasion of Ukraine, US officials say

A former US Army tanker said that while mud is a challenge, it's probably not a showstopper for the Russian military if it is ordered to invade.

news.yahoo.com

A Former Supreme Commander of NATO on What Putin's Up to in the Ukraine

For the past several months, Ukraine and its western partners have been watching Russia methodically build up a powerful force of over 100,000 soldiers on their shared border. While he claims not to intend an invasion, President Vladimir Putin has several objectives. For the U.S., NATO, and...

news.yahoo.com

 

[Siglvr]

https://endoftheamericandream.com/p...as-earth-shattering-implications-for-the-u-s/
Interesting article. Most Americans don't know that the US has been repeatably accused of a covert overthrew the Ukrainian government, and came close to doing the same in Turkey. Quote: "

Pay Careful Attention, Because The 'Color Revolution' In Kazakhstan Has Earth-Shattering Implications For The U.S.
January 9, 2022 by Michael Snyder"

 

[monkeybutler]

https://endoftheamericandream.com/p...as-earth-shattering-implications-for-the-u-s/
Interesting article. Most Americans don't know that the US has been repeatably accused of a covert overthrew the Ukrainian government, and came close to doing the same in Turkey. Quote: "

I don't believe that guy.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Russia Won't Rule Out Military Deployment to Cuba, Venezuela

Russia on Thursday sharply raised the stakes in its dispute with the West over Ukraine, with a top diplomat refusing to rule out a Russian military deployment to Cuba and Venezuela if tensions with...

www.newsmax.com

How far is DC from Cuba?

 

[The Heretic]

Russia Won't Rule Out Military Deployment to Cuba, Venezuela

Russia on Thursday sharply raised the stakes in its dispute with the West over Ukraine, with a top diplomat refusing to rule out a Russian military deployment to Cuba and Venezuela if tensions with...

www.newsmax.com

How far is DC from Cuba?

This is typical. Upping the ante. They tried that before naturally.

 

[Longwalkhome]

This is typical. Upping the ante. They tried that before naturally.

We had a better potus in those days...

 

[The Heretic]

We had a better potus in those days...

In more ways than one.