Russian T-14 - best tank in the world? But Russia can't afford to manufacture them?

[tac]

You have THOUSANDS of Abrams tanks - the desert storage areas in AZ are filled with them. Most, if not all Abrams losses have been through IEDs and the new super-effective slug firing self-forming munitions that beat most everything. AFAIK, no Challenger has ever encountered such a weapon.

You'll note that 553 total Abrams have been recovered from combat situations - many of those are undoubtedly due to the combination of IED and or the latest Russian-made ATGMs I mentioned above. Thankfully, not a single crewman has lost his life. Two were killed in the BoB Challenger 2 incident.

 

[titsonritz]

Meh, that's what A-10's and their 30mm depleted uranium rounds are for.

 

[tac]

Please note that Russia certainly has tracked battlefield equipment that could, if really necessary, haul a tank of of the c*ap. What is does NOT have is something that NATO practices endlessly - battlefield condition recovery under fire.

The next time you see a T-14 hauling another T-14 will be the very first time.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Russia is playing chess here, building large numbers of anything is going to be very difficult for them, planes, tanks, ships all require vast amounts of money they simply don't have, and to make things worse, many of the factories are mostly located in the Ukraine outside the reach of the Russians!
They are mostly a paper tiger now flexing just enough muscle to be taken seriously, bit not enough to be a serious threat! Take a strategic long view, and Russia's nuke capabilities are awesome, and the world should fear that, but I today's world, it would not be of much benefit to them to actually use those weapons!

It's China I worry about they are like a puppy trying super hard, but making YUGE mistakes along the way, playing a game they have zero experience in, and hoping we take them seriously! Not quite as bad as Russia, but they are learning and they are growing, and sooner or later, they will become a threat we all fear!

 

[Stomper]

T14's…. T15's…. ChiCom tanks…. Pphhpptt….

Say hello to my little friends!

 

[titsonritz]

T14's…. T15's…. ChiCom tanks…. Pphhpptt….

Say hello to my little friends!
View attachment 1001753

 

[sobo]

Has anyone talked to @Andy54Hawken about this thread...?

 

[DirectDrive]

How can it be the best tank in the world when it has not been battle-proven?

Just Gobbly Goop for the foreign buyers to slurp.

 

[JohnnyMac]

From what I have heard, Russia simply can't afford to build or maintain anything modern for their military - their economy won't support it. About the only thing they seem able to afford (that we don't prioritize, to our detriment) is nuclear powered ice breakers.

The way oil prices are being driven up, they just might have the scratch sooner than later.

To be able to occupy the land

After a few dozen nukes, the Russians are probably the only folks that would want to occupy it...

 

[03A3Sporter]

I think we have many more M1s than you guys have Challenger 2s.... although.... how many of those M1A2s were lost due to crap like IEDs disabling the running gear and engines?

Truth .. Lots of our tanks have been killed in the last 20 years due to IEDS not engagement with enemy armor . The Challenger isn't a bad tank but it doesn't have the combat pedigree of the Abrams either

The British don't have and can't field the amount of high quality armor forces we do , further more no country since WWI save the Soviets (until their collapse) have fielded in combat Armored forces as we have and during WWII the British relied heavily our armor production due to their inability to produce adequate numbers of tanks , the British role in the Gulf was was small at best most of the armor engagements was US versus Iraqi armor and US crews have more actual training and time trigger time in combat than any force in the world .


It is not that we have led the way in innovation of Armor fighting vehicles but we were smart enough to take all the good innovation and make an all around great tank that we have continually improved . It will be a very long time before someone makes a better tank than the Abrams


We have in all likelihood witnessed the last great large scale armor engagement the world will ever have witnessed in GW I and yes I was there . We trained to beat Warsaw Pact forces and defeated a force that had been in nearly a decades worth of combat with Iran and we decimated them end of story, everyone including our allies witnessed what American Armor is capable of with American crews .

For what it is worth the most capable armor force in Europe right now is not the Germans , French or British its the Poles who are the best trained and currently field more Leopard II tanks than Germany has in inventory think about that.

 

[03A3Sporter]

Meh, that's what A-10's and their 30mm depleted uranium rounds are for.

Can you say Air Land Battle 2000 ?

We proved the doctrine worked in 1991 .

 

[The Heretic]

It's China I worry about they are like a puppy trying super hard, but making YUGE mistakes along the way, playing a game they have zero experience in, and hoping we take them seriously! Not quite as bad as Russia, but they are learning and they are growing, and sooner or later, they will become a threat we all fear!

China has the tech and the $, but not a lot of experience. They are quite willing to throw people, equipment and funds at any opposition, and they have plenty of each.

 

[03A3Sporter]

That is because Challengers have been barley used in combat , at 73 Easting in 1991 there was only the British 1st Armor Division which was involved in a small portion of the actual fighting the rest of the work and most of the kills were done by US Armor .

The same Division was used in the 2003 invasion and most of the armor engagements were still by US units , by that time we had shifted to the BCT model for deploying units .

You have THOUSANDS of Abrams tanks - the desert storage areas in AZ are filled with them. Most, if not all Abrams losses have been through IEDs and the new super-effective slug firing self-forming munitions that beat most everything. AFAIK, no Challenger has ever encountered such a weapon.

You'll note that 553 total Abrams have been recovered from combat situations - many of those are undoubtedly due to the combination of IED and or the latest Russian-made ATGMs I mentioned above. Thankfully, not a single crewman has lost his life. Two were killed in the BoB Challenger 2 incident.

 

[CamoDeafie]

The Challenger isn't a bad tank but it doesn't have the combat pedigree of the Abrams either

The Challenger has been in the same number of wars that the Abrams have... sure not as numerous. The Challenger 2 is the latest in a long line of tanks developed since WW2, and arguably before that with the Christie based cruiser tanks. The British have had to do a lot more with a lot fewer tanks because well, its the British Parliament and the fsct its no longer a British Empire.

By the by.....

The Chieftain that preceded the Challenger 1 series? It has seen a lot more combat in a lot longer period of time, especially in Middle Eastern armies. Fair to say, both the Chieftain and the M60 series were contemporous and saw as much service and combat as each other.

 

[DirectDrive]

The trouble with the British tanks is that you have to stop at various times during the day for tea.
American tanks can keep moving.

 

[sobo]

The trouble with the British tanks is that you have to stop at various times during the day for tea.

And crumpets! Don't forget the crumpets, for bloody Hell's sake!

 

[03A3Sporter]

The trouble with the British tanks is that you have to stop at various times during the day for tea.
American tanks can keep moving.

They have boilers for a reason . True Story

 

[03A3Sporter]

The Challenger has been in the same number of wars that the Abrams have... sure not as numerous. The Challenger 2 is the latest in a long line of tanks developed since WW2, and arguably before that with the Christie based cruiser tanks. The British have had to do a lot more with a lot fewer tanks because well, its the British Parliament and the fsct its no longer a British Empire.

By the by.....

The Chieftain that preceded the Challenger 1 series? It has seen a lot more combat in a lot longer period of time, especially in Middle Eastern armies. Fair to say, both the Chieftain and the M60 series were contemporous and saw as much service and combat as each other.

The British have never fielded armor as numerously as other countries. Dan Carlin said it best during his WWI series the British had the army of a sea power. The problem is they no longer are a sea power either .

When they had empire they used local colonial forces for much of the peace keeping after pacification occurred. Not knocking their competence or their military tradition just stating the realities of things .

The sun set long ago of their prowess as a military power.

 

[RobMa]

Maybe, just maybe......

America will lose the will to fight.
Long before the Russians run out of tanks (aka: targets)?
But.....isn't that sort of the same strategy with the Chinese? Speaking about their fighting men/women.

Aloha, Mark

Or maybe our troops will be trained to be so woke that they don't know how to fight anymore.

 

[ma96782]

Or maybe our troops will be trained to be so woke that they don't know how to fight anymore.

So then.....imagine if you will.....

I was watching a YouTube video last night about women in elite military units. In the video, it was mentioned that because they were women and their most likely opposition (for religious reasons) had rules about killing women.....well yeah, they were taking advantage of that glitch.

Aloha, Mark