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Russian ammo, opinions based on experience

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by ZombieAssassin, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. ZombieAssassin

    ZombieAssassin Oregon Member

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    I'm seeing a lot of cheaper ammo floating around, namely Brown/Silver/Golden Bear, and Wolf. I've shot Brown Bear, Wolf, and Golden Tiger in 7.62x39 through an SKS, and the Brown Bear was the most accurate at 25 yards and cleanest.

    The Internetz has told me, via searches, that I don't know what the most common set of data is across all Russian brands in both 7.62x39 and .223, and therefore the closest answer to what may be the truth for my firearms. Does anyone have real world EXPERIENCE, not internet regurgitated data, on Russian ammo in either caliber?
     
  2. parsons_12b

    parsons_12b LaPine Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have shot alot of wolf both 7.62X39 and 223 through aks of both calibers and various ar15s I have had no issues at all.
     
  3. ZombieAssassin

    ZombieAssassin Oregon Member

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    How is the accuracy (MOA at what distance; assuming you shoot from a bench rest to remove as much human error as possible)?

    How hot does it burn? I've read that it burns fairly hot, thus making your barrel heat up faster, thus affecting your accuracy in less shots.

    How dirty have you seen them get your receiver, breech, barrel?

    I'm looking for specific data :thumbup:
     
  4. finch6013

    finch6013 Oregon City Active Member

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    I shot wolf 7.62 in my ak and could hold a 4'' pattern at 100yds with a cheap scope and leaning against my car. Not an accurate shooting stance and I wasn't trying very hard
     
  5. parsons_12b

    parsons_12b LaPine Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have not realy shot much wolf off a bench for groups I zeroed the scope I have on my Ar with some federal 55 grain but after it got real expensive I started buying wolf i do know I can hit a half gallon milk jug at 50 yards offhand consistently. I will try to do some bench shooting this weekend and I will let you know. As far as being dirty I have not noticed any real differance same with heating up the barrel I seldom shoot enough rounds fast enough to realy notice.
     
  6. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

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    From my experience the Silver Bear rounds are a ton better than Wolf rounds. Cleaner powder, higher QA standards, and more consitant shot for shot. I used to buy Barnul rounds who was under contract to supply the Soviet military with small arms ammo. IIRC they're the same manufacturers for the "Bear" rounds.
     
  7. parsons_12b

    parsons_12b LaPine Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Ive looked at the silver bear ammo it looked like it was laquer coated and that kind of turned me off.
     
  8. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

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    They're not laquer coated. It's a nickle plated steel. At least the new ones are, like the ones in the 700 rd spam can I got last month.
     
  9. parsons_12b

    parsons_12b LaPine Oregon Well-Known Member

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    how bout a lead on were I would find some of that.
     
  10. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Tried the Silver Bear in my lightweight 16" AR. From a supported bench position
    (not sandbagged) it shot 6" in a nice circular group at 100 yds. I then shot a
    group with some American Eagle 55 gr. 1.25". Not very impressed with the Silver
    Bear in that rifle!

    Buy a couple of boxes and try it---all guns have different preferences in ammo.
     
  11. goonsqd

    goonsqd Vancouver, WA New Member

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    ammunitiontogo.com 1000rds for $349
     
  12. ZombieAssassin

    ZombieAssassin Oregon Member

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    Is it that hard to stay on topic? Take the "looking for ammo" talk to another thread. I simply want to know what people's experience is with shooting Russian ammos from the perspective of accuracy, barrel heat, and dirtiness.
     
  13. BrianL

    BrianL Hermiston Active Member

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    I also have had much better results with Silver Bear ammo over Wolf in regards to accuracy and cleanliness in my AK. I have found it to be as accurate as Winchester, but not as clean. I believe it has to do with the bullet diameter of the Silver Bear compared to the Wolf. The Silver Bear has a bullet diameter of .310 as compared to the Wolf’s .308 diameter bullet. Winchester is .309. It could be that the Silver Bear’s larger diameter bullets grip the rifling better when going down the barrel resulting in better accuracy. Just a thought.
     
  14. markw76

    markw76 Portland/Moscow on the Willamette Member

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    The Bears are Barnaul. Silver Bear is zinc plated, not lacquer. I don't know why Wolf would be .309, they've always been the appropriate diameter in the other calibers I've fired. Wolf does have a polymer coating, does not appear to shed any on firing. Just don't fire brass-cased after steel, the carbon chamber fouling tends to glue the first brass case into the chamber, requiring a rod to knock it out. Clean the chamber, good to go for brass. I've not noticed any excessive fouling from Russian ammo and have no qualms about shooting it for practice. It all goes boom and functions fine. I have .45, 9mm, .30 Carbine, and 5.56 so far and intend to acquire 7.62NATO as well.
     
  15. ZombieAssassin

    ZombieAssassin Oregon Member

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    So for practice, do you zero your iron sights and scopes using higher grade ammo, then shoot with the Russian ammo? Do you find that the Russian stuff is close to your zero, and so you know about how much it may be off at various distances but you are fairly certain the margin of error is due to ammo and not to human? I ask because this is the approach I am considering, but only if I can see a consensus that this approach makes sense.

    I'll be buying a few boxes of Brown Bear .22, .223 and .308 this weekend and seeing how my theory works. I know my iron sights and scopes are zeroed with excellent Federal and Winchester ammo, so it will be interesting to see the testing results.
     
  16. markw76

    markw76 Portland/Moscow on the Willamette Member

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    I zero using GI Ball or duplicates of it, regardless of caliber. When I practice I don't bother resetting the sights, as most of the time I'm shooting at paper plates or combat-style silhouettes. I'm not into shooting for groups unless I'm doing load development or some other fiddling with ammunition. As long as I'm hitting minute-of-badguy I'm fine with it.

    I can't afford "high end" ammunition, other than surplus military match. I hadn't tried any Russian ammo until last year when I bought some Wolf in a few calibers I shoot. Each batch of ammunition is a little different, so each shoots to a slightly different point of impact, but I haven't noticed a huge difference in POI unless different bullet weights or distances are involved.
     
  17. Oro

    Oro Western WA Active Member

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    I have shot a moderate amount of the Wolf .223 in an OA AR-15. It was reliable and accurate enough for plinking - never bench rested it. I consider it "stash" ammo and not bench-rest or other "target" ammo. For that purpose, it is fine in my book. The only real downside is it is not reloadable if that matters to you.
     
  18. markw76

    markw76 Portland/Moscow on the Willamette Member

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    Went to TriCounty today with my future soninlaw and a friend of his, along with most of my rifles and a few pounds of ammo. All the 5.56 I took was Wolf 55gr, and fired it thru a Colt SP1 AR, a 580 series Mini, and a AR-180B. A mix of green follower 30rd aluminum mags and some ancient Defense Molding Zytel 30 rounders were used to feed the Wolf to the ARs, and some postban factory 20s for the mini. Zero hiccups, that eggy smell, and 3 hot rifles later all my Wolf was shot up, 2 grinning Brits with sooty hands were sweeping empties and pulling targets (nothing great, we all need more trigger time) and 3 hours was literally shot away. Now I need to find another sale on Wolf.
     
  19. finch6013

    finch6013 Oregon City Active Member

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    I married into the wrong family. I wish my father in law would take me out to wast a few hundred dollars on 556.
     
  20. markw76

    markw76 Portland/Moscow on the Willamette Member

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    Ahhh...it didn't amount to quite that, but I'm not thinking about the replacement prices either. We shot some South African 7.62 NATO thru the M1A and some Greek through the M1. The boys were tickled to hear the "ping" in real life like they'd heard in Band of Brothers. They put some Wolf through the M1 Carbine also, no problems with that either. Pretty bad when Wolf is going for 30-50 cents a round though.