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Rumor of Bypassing FFL

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by decklin, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. decklin

    decklin WA Well-Known Member

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    So a very good friend of mine has said something I can't find any evidence of. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me could help out.
    So my buddy claims that if purchasing a firearm on gunbroker you can simply do a change of address after the transaction is complete. This would allow you to bypass an ffl sending the firearm wherever you wish.
    He says the last gun he purchased utilized UPS as the shipper and gave him the option of changing it. He says gunbroker posted a warning with the option.
    Can anybody corroborate?
    I haven't been able to find this information anywhere and it doesn't make sense that you would have the ability to bypass an FFL. I'm trying to get any ammo I can, so to speak, to shoot down this myth.
     
  2. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I just ordered one from there and went through an FFL, but changing it to your address would probably work. However illegal it may be.

    I wouldn't do it.
     
  3. uscsoldier

    uscsoldier Salem, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Great, now there will be new legislation to close the Gunbroker loophole :mad:
     
  4. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    You can also get a tor browser and go on the dark web and buy fully automatic firearms for bitcoins. Not that you should do it.
     
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  5. guitarguy

    guitarguy Longview, WA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    HMMM...
    Here is my experience from working for several local gun shops and pawn shops. First the transaction is between FFL holders and your address is meaningless except on the form 4473.
    When you are buying from an out-of-state dealer, they require a copy of the receiving dealers current FFL, prior to shipping, and typically call and verify the receiving FFL dealers address and alert them to the shipment. Some are sloppy and may just ship the firearms but it goes to the address on the Federal Firearms license. The seller must include a copy of his FFL or the receiving dealer cannot legally release the firearm.
    I am not clear where the loop hole would be but tis is how its supposed to work.
     
  6. nammac

    nammac I-5 Corridor - West of Portland Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Even if this were true, and the gunbroker purchase was from an FFL, they could still tie your name to it.. Heck even a private sale, I believe they could still tie your name to it... Addresses and identities are verified, via credit card, so there's really nothing being done in secret there... At least as far as I can tell...
     
  7. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I'm with the guitar
    The shipping FFL gets the receiving FFL's address and there goes the gun. UPS,etc ,along with the shipping FFL or seller(guns can be shipped from a private seller to a fflas long as the receiving dealer accepts from privates)....
    Any of them would be stupid to change the address after the fact.
    One gun does not make even your weekly nut on your shop. Why risk loosing your ffl?
    I call BS
     
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  8. AMT

    AMT Vancouver, WA. Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    Um, not 100% accurate.

    If it were a private party selling on GB, they are shipping to wherever they are "instructed" to send it to. Private party sellers don't need to show proof of FFL as private party doesn't usually have an FFL.

    It is legal for FFL's to accept from private party and other FFL's. The private party seller is supposed to include a copy of their drivers license and bill of sale when shipping to an FFL.

    I agree that if someone were on any site (GB, ArmsList, CalGuns, ANY of them) buying from a private party they could give any address they want (FFL, the neighbor, yours, your parents, etc.) that they would like it shipped to. The private party seller is none-the-wiser.

    Of course, doing this is at your own risk of getting into that whole "interstate arms" shipping, etc. Yucky stuff that will get you into a whole lot of trouble.

    Correct me if I am wrong.....

    If you are NOT an FFL you are required to send pistols (NOT long guns) through UPS. FFL's can use UPS, FedEx, USPS if they want.

    This may be the reason that GB had that option of not using UPS, and the ability to enter a different method.
     
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  9. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    That's true I sold a gun on their and it was up to me to get their FFL info, I called to verify it, looked up the location on the web to make sure it was legit, and then I mailed it via USPS myself.
     
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  10. decklin

    decklin WA Well-Known Member

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    This was my understanding as well.
     
  11. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    A private buyer can give the seller any address he wants,sure,buy the seller is playing with fire if he doesn't make sure where he is sending the gun.
    Well, I guess they both are.
    But it could be done.
     
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  12. Jabba

    Jabba Oregon Member

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    I thought the loophole here was the buyer gets the tracking# from the seller and changes the address it is being shipped to. He thinks it's going to a FFL since that is what he put in the UPS form. Now unless for some reason he verifies the delivery address again later, or the receiving FFL for some reason calls asking where the gun is, the seller has no reason to think it wasn't picked up at a FFL. It does leave a paper trail, pretty dumb way to break the law IMO.
     
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  13. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    And gunbroker would fry both parties' accounts,so it would be a one hit wonder.
     
    decklin likes this.
  14. Jabba

    Jabba Oregon Member

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    How would gunbroker know where the firearm is shipped to? Do they automatically get the tracking # too? (haven't used them)
     
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  15. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Yeah not sure,but if you were the seller and weren't secure with shipping,maybe told GB your buyer Fd up?
    I guess the buyer could change IP addresses too. Still easier ways to break the law
     
  16. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    Have fun trying to send a firearm via UPS / USPS without a copy of a FFL. I guess you could LIE and say it's bunch of books...
     
  17. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Sounds like an Obama ATF Scam to me
    humor-in-nature8.gif
     
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  18. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I needed that info. what's a tor browser?
     
  19. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Depends on what info you need :) Tor browsers are not illegal so Im happy to share that info. googling "tor browser" gives you a link to download the browser. It uses a network of distributed computers to pass internet traffic to make it more anonymous. The goal of the Tor network was to try and maintain privacy. As you can imagine, criminals started to use it for bad stuff. But basically a tor browser functions just like Internet Explorer or Chrome and you get to browse the web. But the information is bounced around a bunch of other computers making it very difficult to link to you. Its usually quite a bit slower than a normal web browser.
    more information
    Tor (anonymity network) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network))

    That being said when the Silk Road was busted (dark web site were they sold everything from drugs to guns to hitman) the FBI infiltrated the tor network and it is no longer assumed completely anonymous. Plus probably 90% of the people still selling illegal stuff are either scammers or the FBI trying to bust people trying to buy illegal items like machine guns.

    Remember that some people think that by using a tor browser you are going to be up to illegal activity. You know the whole "if you have nothing to hide why do you need privacy?"

    So use at your own risk. We still have some semblance of freedom of speech to allow me to make this post, but that might not be there someday. But if you wanted to look at websites like this one and not have someone tracking where you go, it is an option

    I have no information on how to actually get to the dark web.
     
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