Rules on welching?

[Soberglitch]

I normally deal on arfcom but I came onto this forum to try to do some easier FTF deals in the classifieds section.
An overwhelming majority of the time people here will commit to a deal then either back out of it or comms will go dark. It's really just as bad here as it is on something like Armslist or Craigslist.
What I'm used to on the bigger nationwide sites is that once you commit you either follow through or your account is banned. What are the specific rules behind this here? I have a few members here that I'm going to leave negative feedback for because of this.

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[flashpan]

I go by the "Golden Rule"
With over 100 transactions on this site without problems or back outs. I most always have a phone call with buyer or seller and from the questions I ask...I know who I got. Feedback history helps a lot too.

 

[Soberglitch]

I disagree. It's not something for Joelink to add to his plate. It's built into the board, he already did it, it's just to us as users to use the tools provided.

I disagree with the OP as he needs to learn to use the tools provided vrs needing the government (the board) to fix his selling/buying problems for him.

#1 feedback.
#2 How long have they been a member?
#3 Exactly what @2pnwhunter69 said ban the user from your view and your posts from their view.
#4 Is the person selling/buying a supporting member of the board?

Example:
Take the OP on this thread. He has 3 positive feedbacks and no negatives. That is a good start. The bad is he has only been on the board for less than 43 days. Bad #2 OP's only 17 posts seem to all be to buy/sell but he has yet to chose to help financially support the board as a member. As a member of this community, this is important to me.

Personally, the board is a great balance and I don't need "extra enforcement" vs using the tools Joelink has already provided. Its a matter of being more of a member of the community. Example #2. I would 10x more likely to buy from @cigars who I have never met or did any business with than the OP who I have not seen participating in the community online. A quick look at the OPs posts and it looks like he is here only to use the classifieds. That's fine they are there for everyone to use, but I don't see a member badge on his name usually something someone using the board for commerce does to help support the very board providing said commerce.

I didn't say that I needed the forum to do anything for me. I simply asked their rules on the issue as it is a reoccurring problem.

Why would I financially support the board when there isn't any incentive to do so? As opposed to other forums I financially support that have an active role in enforcement.

I'll just write up my negative feedback for the multiple users and be on my merry way.

By the time I deal with the welchers and then take your advice of ignoring members with not enough feedback or without a support badge then the items will have already been sold on another forum. That's what has happened with every item I have listed so far.

 

[Helocat]

I was just making some of the same observations. NWFA is a firearms forum that has a classifieds section, not a firearms classified website that has a firearms forum.

Exactly. Community. Not a thrift sale on the side of the HW.

 

[Mauserk98k]

I disagree. It's not something for Joelink to add to his plate. It's built into the board, he already did it, it's just to us as users to use the tools provided.

I disagree with the OP as he needs to learn to use the tools provided vrs needing the government (the board) to fix his selling/buying problems for him.

#1 feedback.
#2 How long have they been a member?
#3 Exactly what @pnwhunter69 said ban the user from your view and your posts from their view.
#4 Is the person selling/buying a supporting member of the board?

Example:
Take the OP on this thread. He has 3 positive feedbacks and no negatives. That is a good start. The bad is he has only been on the board for less than 43 days. Bad #2 OP's only 17 posts seem to all be to buy/sell but he has yet to chose to help financially support the board as a member. As a member of this community, this is important to me.

Personally, the board is a great balance and I don't need "extra enforcement" vs using the tools Joelink has already provided. Its a matter of being more of a member of the community. Example #2. I would 10x more likely to buy from @cigars who I have never met or did any business with than the OP who I have not seen participating in the community online. A quick look at the OPs posts and it looks like he is here only to use the classifieds. That's fine they are there for everyone to use, but I don't see a member badge on his name usually something someone using the board for commerce does to help support the very board providing said commerce.

thank you!

 

[orygun]

This is a good question for @Joe Link

It's really gone downhill here in the past year for classifieds. In the past there were a lot of looky-loos but once you came to an agreement, the deal would get done.

My recommendation is to be leery. I recently had a guy @Stoner welch and go completely dark. Instead of being a man about it, he blocked me. When I left him negative feedback for bailing, he left ME negative feedback for, that's right, leaving him negative feedback. Not the only recent example, but the most ridiculous and juvenile.

Moderators refuse to take down his negative feedback, even though it violates the terms of use here. Lots of good folks here, but more than their fair share of spineless guys with zero integrity or professionalism.

Rules for welching? DON'T DO IT! There are circumstances that may come up, but communication will usually solve that.

It's been all roses until the last couple of weeks. One guy was 15 min late and when I called, said he was running behind.... Said 5 minutes. 15 minutes later I sent him a text saying "cancel the deal" and I started to leave. I saw him coming into the parking lot, so I parked and got out of the car. I wasn't happy, let him know. No "Sorry" or nuthin. I made it short and left. I'd made the mistake of posting my phone number and he contacted me directly, so I had no clue as to who he is one here to leave feedback.

The other guy, Redstaples, and I had a phone call where I mentioned that I was big on communication and that I would be understanding as long as he let me know what was going on. He had been adamant about me posting SPF and wanted to pay me online, which I didn't want to do. Pay me when we meet. Then he didn't show twice when he had "promised" he would, only responding to my texts after the fact. No up front, "Sorry, my boss made me work", or whatever... I gave him one last chance, at my choice of meeting place and time, only to get a text from him after the fact, which really pissed me off. That's when I blocked him, Ignored him and left negative feedback. He left Negative because of that saying, "If you deal with him you better be the first to communicate."

No bubblegum Sherlock.

So, no phone number in my ads anymore. Gotta PM me here first.

 

[Helocat]

I didn't say that I needed the forum to do anything for me. I simply asked their rules on the issue as it is a reoccurring problem.

Why would I financially support the board when there isn't any incentive to do so? As opposed to other forums I financially support that have an active role in enforcement.

I'll just write up my negative feedback for the multiple users and be on my merry way.

By the time I deal with the welchers and then take your advice of ignoring members with not enough feedback or without a support badge then the items will have already been sold on another forum. That's what has happened with every item I have listed so far.

You are correct my error in miss reading your question, and it was a question. That is my error.

As to the question you just ask, it's in my post.
#1 feedback.
#2 How long have they been a member?
#3 Exactly what @pnwhunter69 said ban the user from your view and your posts from their view.
#4 Is the person selling/buying a supporting member of the board?

Why would I financially support the board when there isn't any incentive to do so? As opposed to other forums I financially support that have an active role in enforcement.

The incentive to support the board is the fact you using it for commerce. Simple. Again community, support it by providing something back just don't take.

As for active roll in enforcement, again community, provide some suggestions as to how that can be done outside of a feedback system that also tells you how long someone has been a member? As a member of this community, I am genuinely interested in your suggestions on how to make it better.

 

[Soberglitch]

As for active roll in enforcement, again community, provide some suggestions as to how that can be done outside of a feedback system that also tells you how long someone has been a member? As a member of this community, I am genuinely interested in your suggestions on how to make it better.

The only issue I've spoken to is welching. My suggestion on making that better is making it an offense that can have you permanently banned. There are court systems setup on other forums that afford the opportunity for both sides to discuss the issue with moderators. This can result in a ban, an understanding of uncontrollable circumstances to back out of a deal, or the buyer/seller being forced to follow through with the deal.

 

[orygun]

I guess I forgot about the other guy I left Negative feed back for, also within the last couple of weeks. When payment didn't arrive and he stopped responding to my PM's, I got to checking. Oh yeah, he had been present here, just chose not to respond. I checked another member he'd dealt with and got the reply that transaction had gone well. Mine didn't. Negative feedback, it was. I didn't ignore him cuz he wasn't being a pain in the butt, but he was a flake and I said so.

 

[P7M13]

YMMV
If it's a desirable item and priced right, it'll be gone in 10 minutes. As the price skews higher or the desirability shrinks, the number of tire kickers will rise significantly. I'd wager there are 20 lookers for every bona-fide, and 0.1 Welch's.
You got unlucky. Life's short.

 

[titsonritz]

For welching, leave a negative feedback. There is one new member that joined in July and has already racked up 6 negative reviews, that is more negative reviews that months of membership. F' that, despite having multiple items for sale that I've wanted I didn't bother with it and won't. Now if someone rips someone off then I think they should be banned, at least from the classifieds.

 

[dobeman]

I normally deal on arfcom but I came onto this forum to try to do some easier FTF deals in the classifieds section.
An overwhelming majority of the time people here will commit to a deal then either back out of it or comms will go dark. It's really just as bad here as it is on something like Armslist or Craigslist.
What I'm used to on the bigger nationwide sites is that once you commit you either follow through or your account is banned. What are the specific rules behind this here? I have a few members here that I'm going to leave negative feedback for because of this.

has been totally opposite my experience on this forum. But I try to deal with members with established reputations and try to deal locally to ease the pain of driving for both parties. However, I had someone drive 3 hours to come here to get a gun. If anyone was a no show candidate it would have been him just because of the drive. But no, he showed up as promised.

 

[Helocat]

The only issue I've spoken to is welching. My suggestion on making that better is making it an offense that can have you permanently banned. There are court systems setup on other forums that afford the opportunity for both sides to discuss the issue with moderators. This can result in a ban, an understanding of uncontrollable circumstances to back out of a deal, or the buyer/seller being forced to follow through with the deal.

Sounds like an interesting way to deal with deal breakers, thank you for sharing that. Personly sounds very convoluted to do a "court" then enforce with a permaban, that we all know users just grab a new User ID and come right back. With IP tunneling these days IP tracking on the back end of boards are limited to track duplicate user IDs. I would rather the user stick around and have the neg. feedback on their user info for everyone to see, and make educated decisions on.

has been totally opposite my experience on this forum. But I try to deal with members with established reputations and try to deal locally to ease the pain of driving for both parties. However, I had someone drive 3 hours to come here to get a gun. If anyone was a no-show candidate it would have been him just because of the drive. But no, he showed up as promised.

You mean like Helocat doing a Saturday 8AM pickup! I bet if I was less than 45 days on this board you might have been less likely to do the deal as we did Sat. (BTW just left you feedback too, thanks again for the deal, 3 teenage boys can shoot more now)

I have had two deals in the last 7 days with forum members @dobeman and @JCORD. Both solid deals. Heck discovered JCORD is a dude I would hang out and have beers with. Probably the same for dobeman, but we never were face to face just worked it as a drop/pickup. BUT both are solid members with great feedback. Since I have been on this board and using the tools the board has built-in I have had nothing but positive experiences. But when the day comes (and I am sure it will) a deal goes sideways, I will not be happy, but I will understand I am selling/buying with the public and I get what I get.

 

[saxon]

i post negative feed back and a reason why, only had to do it once.

 

[orygun]

i post negative feed back and a reason why, only had to do it once.

I'd NEVER had to do that until recently. Really kind of bummed me out.

 

[_db_bl00p3er_]

The only issue I've spoken to is welching. My suggestion on making that better is making it an offense that can have you permanently banned. There are court systems setup on other forums that afford the opportunity for both sides to discuss the issue with moderators. This can result in a ban, an understanding of uncontrollable circumstances to back out of a deal, or the buyer/seller being forced to follow through with the deal.

s

you are ridiculous, we never made plans to meet up. I said I was interested and that's as far as it went. showing interest does not equal planning to meet at a certain time or place. Now you left me a negative review because you failed to nail down a time to meet up? To hell with that. You will see in my screenshots NO TIME OR DATE WAS EVER EVEN ATTEMPTED TO BE MADE.

 

[NW Backpacker]

Even that was ok with me as he made it clear before setting up the meet that his decision would depend on inspection.

^^^^^^ This!

A lot of the classifieds include poor photos, not enough photos, etc. I would assume EVERY deal is dependent on an actual inspection of the item, particularly for expensive items like guns.

 

[Soberglitch]

s

you are ridiculous, we never made plans to meet up. I said I was interested and that's as far as it went. showing interest does not equal planning to meet at a certain time or place. Now you left me a negative review because you failed to nail down a time to meet up? To hell with that. You will see in my screenshots NO TIME OR DATE WAS EVER EVEN ATTEMPTED TO BE MADE.

View attachment 784671 View attachment 784672 View attachment 784673

Our text messages specify that we were meeting up.
Funny how I don't get a response to my multiple texts and messages on here but after I leave feedback you respond instantly.

 

[Southpaw]

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Closing the thread.
As I do not want this to turn into a bash one another thread...
Or a dramatic he said this....he said that....No I never said this or that....thread.

If someone has a bad experience with another member on the classifieds...leave bad feedback with the reasons.

If this is done and one thinks that it was done unfairly ....report the feedback.
Thread is closed.
Andy