Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Ruger - customer "NO" service!

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by dario541, Nov 25, 2010.

  1. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    24
    The Survival movement probably started during the mid 1970's. At that time there were no AK's, AR's or many of the other semi-auto rifles which are so plentiful today. Thus, there was a void which gave gun makers a great opportunity to create "Survival Guns."
    Around 1975 Ruger introduced their Mini-14. However, even though it was completely legal to do so, Ruger refused to sell their new rifle to the public! Why? Who knows! So :huh:it was, that, at a time when the Survival movement was growing and there were only a few semi-autos such as the M1A and the Garand available, the public could not purchase the Mini-14.
    Finally about 1976 Ruger released the Mini-14 to the public. It immediately became the "go to" gun for the Survival movement. It was not extremely accurate or powerful, but it was good enough for military and police work. Thus, a lot of people wanted one (including me). It handles well and looks good. It is loosely based on the M1 Garand. It uses the current military cartridge. I Mean: What's not to like?
    But, for a Survival gun, you need to have extra parts. Sadly, Ruger has always had a ridiculous policy regarding spare parts. They resist efforts by their customers to purchase certain vital parts such as firing pins. Why? I don't know! Most companies will do anything they can to make their customers happy, but Ruger customer service sucks! It should be called "Customer NO Service!"
    During the Clinton "Assault Weapon Ban", manufacturers were prohibited from making magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. But, although they continued selling the Mini-14 and could have legally sold magazines of 10 shots, Ruger chose to make Mini-14 magazines with a capacity of only 5 rounds. Why? Who wants a five shot semi auto "Survival" rifle?
    The "Clinton Ban" expired early in the second President Bush's first term. It then became legal to make all sizes of high capacity magazines. Ruger was still making the Mini-14. But did they start making hi-cap magazines for it? NO! They continued offering magazines with a capacity of only 5 cartridges. WHY? After-market manufacturers started offering magazines to fit the Ruger with capacities of 20 and 30 rounds, but for years, appeals to Ruger to make factory hi-cap mags fell on deaf ears. Finally around 2008 or 2009 Ruger started to offer hi-cap Factory magazines.
    But it was too late! As Ruger dilly-dallyed around through the years, many manufacturers started offering the AR in various platforms. There were tons of new developments in the AR and it evolved into probably the finest Survival gun around. There are tons of spare parts for it. The early interest in the Mini-14 for Survival purposes died out and Ruger lost a "Golden Opportunity" to take the lead in Survival gun sales.
    RUGER: You have met the enemy and it is YOU!!!
     
  2. Bam

    Bam Portland Member

    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    I like my Ruger SR-556.
     
  3. OcelotZ3

    OcelotZ3 Corvallis Active Member

    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    59
    Huh, my father bought an AR-15 (which I still have) at a furniture store in Medford in 1967, so I'd say that your statement about "no AR's in the mid 70's" is quite incorrect.
     
  4. Ranger90

    Ranger90 Helvetia, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    26
    I know that given those choices, I would take the Springfield M1A, as I prefer the firearm that is going to be more accurate and more reliable, especially if it is going to be a "survival" rifle.
     
  5. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

    Messages:
    2,541
    Likes Received:
    1,515
    Regarding the 5-round capacity, it's my understanding that many states (including Oregon) require a magazine of 5 rounds or less when hunting with a semi-auto rifle.

    Maybe that has something to do with only a 5-round capacity?

    Greg
     
  6. Rix

    Rix Tacoma Active Member

    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    68
    LOL.
     
  7. keystir

    keystir Hillsboro, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    123
    Ruger firearms are what is right about this country. When everyone else is sending manufacturing jobs overseas they continue to pump out high quality, durable, built like tanks firearms that are made in America by Americans. I'm not sure the point of you're post other than to rant about Ruger but I will always look to Ruger first for my firearm needs. Ruger Firearms and it's co-founder William Ruger are/were national treasures (IMHO).
     
  8. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    259
    That may be taking it a step too far. Ruger's role in getting the AWB passed did leave a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths.
     
  9. +1. I won't ever buy a Ruger brand new. I may buy one used if it's the right price, but I can get a better rifle from Remington and a better revolver from S&W. I can't stand the bricks that Ruger passes off as semi-autos.
     
  10. sandman1212

    sandman1212 NW Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    195
    I reading about The Ruger company, if I remember correctly, Mr Ruger himself was opposed to "high Capacity" Mags because he personally believed there was no use for a high capacity for the law abiding person??? This was made clear in "the Ruger letter" written to the NRA and contributed to the "assault weapons ban". confusing at the least, I lost a lot of respect for the Mr Ruger after reading this, at least there was no lasting harm done. Once he passed away and the power went to his family, it was decided that they should be made and distributed. below is taken from the controversy portion here:

    Sturm, Ruger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "After a spate of high profile shootings and incidents with the Ruger Mini-14 rifle, along with the popularity the Mini 14 had gained with militias and extremist movements during the late 1970s and 1980s, William B. Ruger expressed a highly unpopular position (amongst firearms owners, users and enthusiasts) by stating his personal views on the "sporting" nature of certain firearms. In his letter to members of the House and Senate on 30 March 1989, Ruger stated (in what has come to be known as "The Ruger Letter"):

    "The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete, and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining "assault rifles" and "semi-automatic rifles" is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could prohibit their possession or sale and would effectively implement these objectives."[citation needed]

    In addition to the furor from the National Rifle Association caused by "The Ruger Letter", Ruger made additional comments during an interview with NBC network's Tom Brokaw that angered the NRA further, saying: "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun…" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 and 30 round magazines…". It has long been Ruger's policy to limit sales of those items to Law Enforcement or Military purchasers.[citation needed]

    This position, coming from an important firearms manufacturer such as Ruger, caused outrage in some segments of the shooting sports community and led some to boycott Ruger's products.

    "The Ruger Letter" is widely believed to be the genesis for those parts of legislation that were drafted 5 years later in the now defunct Assault Weapons Ban[citation needed] which prohibited the manufacture of any magazines holding over 10 rounds of ammunition for civilian sale, except to the motion-picture industry, which Ruger continued to pursue. It should be noted, however, that Mr. Ruger actually had advocated a 15 round limit.

    After the death of William B. Ruger in July 2002 and the sunset of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban in September 2004, the company has retreated from its historical position of limiting sales of these magazines to citizens. Ruger now offers its twenty and thirty round magazines to the general public as well as firearms that would have been banned under the bill indirectly supported by Ruger, including a modified AR-15 pattern rifle."
     
  11. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,663
    Likes Received:
    798
    There is good and bad rolled into Old Man Ruger's legacy. I can't hold the company responsible for the personal views of its dead founder, especially since they've retreated from those views since.

    Keith
     
  12. keystir

    keystir Hillsboro, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    123
    Ruger vs. S&W = Twice the gun at half the price. You get better value with a foreign made Taurus knock off than a S&W (IMHO)
     
  13. sandman1212

    sandman1212 NW Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    195
    I agree totally with this!
     
  14. atypicalparkie

    atypicalparkie sowfeast poetland, ohraygun Member

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    2
    I understand that Dario's points were about technical/business aspects of Ruger & the Mini-14 and not specifically about Mr. Ruger's opinions but others bring up interesting points too--

    good info from keystir, trainsktg, sandman & others, I always learn things here. Since I only bought my 1st firearm about 5-6 years ago, I didn't know any of this stuff about the late Mr. Ruger or the 'Ruger Letter'. I do think it's pretty awesome that Ruger continues to make their products in the USA & providing jobs here in the states.

    ((*what follows is kinda off topic, but relevant I reckon? at least regarding the points made by others here on the thread...))

    I reckon we could probably all find something we don't like about the personal opinions of execs or owners of companies we do business with... a personal example for me being Kahr; I owned & enjoyed the CW9, I try to buy American made stuff as much as possible & Kahr being US-made plus the size & price of the CW9 fit me well at the time for cc. BUT when I bought it I didn't know that Kahr is bankrolled by Sun Young Moon, whos messianic claims I have real issues with...
    mainly though, I grew to dislike the trigger feel of the CW after I'd shot more guns. I coincidentally JUST replaced that gun with a used Ruger sr9c less than a week ago 'cos it fits me well, it was a great deal used & I dig the trigger. Shoots better than I do for sure. And though it likely wouldn't have come with a 17-rnd magazine while the late Mr. Ruger ran the company, it does now...

    It's cool we have SO many choices in what we buy & can 'vote' for or against a company with our cash.
     
  15. usmc

    usmc oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    49
    in regard to the ban on high cap mags,criminals dont follow these laws and do what they want. the good hard working people of america are the only ones that suffer by firearm legislation.
     
  16. The Quiet Man

    The Quiet Man rural Washington County, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    36
    +1. ... as is the OP's assertion that the "survival movement" began in the mid 70's.
     
  17. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,187
    Likes Received:
    290
    I wasn't around then, but didn't the 'modern survivalist movement' start in the 50's when the USSR obtained the bomb?

    Back to the topic at hand, I remember when old man Ruger was speaking out against the high cap mags and semi-auto rifles, man what an uproar in the 2A community. Alot of Americans felt sold out. I've noticed since 'pops' has passed on the company is striving to make up on lost ground.

    Rugers version of there own AR, wholly ma-lally.... Talk about endin the debate between the AR and the Mini-14. Also Last I heard, Ruger is making factory high cap mags for the mini-14 which was the weakest link for there rifle. Aftermarket mags couldn't be duplicated correctly and where the reason for so many of the jamming issues the mini-14 is known for.

    Recently I seen an ad for the mini-14 'tactical' or some hoop-la name that essentially is what American shooters have been asking for. I am not an expert but I feel they missed there chance.

    If Ruger really wanted a money maker, they need to make a line of mini-30's that accept AK mags, forward rail/scout scope mount, phantom style flash hider and ghost ring sights. May sound crazy but I beleive it would sell hard and fast for all shooters and not just for the 'survivalists'.

    My two cents.

    SF-
     
  18. tlfreek

    tlfreek Vancouver WA Active Member

    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    211
    ArmaLite sold its rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 to Colt in 1959. After a tour by Colt of the Far East, the first sale of AR-15s were made to Malaysia on 30 September 1959 with Colt's manufacture of their first 300 AR-15s in December 1959.[10] Colt marketed the AR-15 rifle to various military services around the world, including the U.S. Navy, Air Force, Army, and Marine Corps. The AR-15 was eventually adopted by the United States military under the designation M16. However, Colt continued to use the AR-15 trademark for its semi-automatic variants (AR-15, AR-15A2) which were marketed to civilian and law-enforcement customers. The original AR-15 was a very lightweight weapon, weighing less than 6 pounds with empty magazine, though later heavy-barrel versions of the civilian AR-15 can weigh upwards of 8.5 lbs.[11]

    dont ya just love wikipedia?
     
  19. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    24
    I, too, like Ruger. I own several. I bought my first one in 1961 and still have it. But, why is it so hard to get extra parts? No gun or any other machine will last forever. How would you like to buy a car that you could never get parts for?
    The first I remember hearing about the survival movement was reading articles in Guns and Ammo by Mel Tappan. That was during the 70's. I do remember that when I was in school we practiced to try to live through nuclear bomb attacks. A lot of people were building bomb shelters. But I never heard it called the Survival movement.
    I guess there were a few AR's available in the 70's, but Ruger was lower priced and more available and Ruger would have been way ahead in the game if they had tried to deliver to the public what it wanted. If they had proceeded correctly, I think they would have sold far more Mini-14's than they have. There are a lot more choices now that we didn't have during the 70's. I'm going to get rid of my Mini-14 and get an AR because I am thoroughly convinced that the AR is better. Tons of spare parts at reasonable prices and a lot of after-market accessories. You can trick it out any way you desire. I'll keep my Ruger handguns because I agree with those of you who were praising Ruger's other guns. They just totally missed the boat with the Mini-14.
    Thank you all for your comments.
     
  20. gehrheart

    gehrheart fidalgo island Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,261
    Likes Received:
    418
    The only Rugers I have ever owned are M77 and Ruger #1's. Currently I have no Rugers.

    I have always found them to be very very finicky. The #1's especially. Shoots very well with one case-powder-bullet combo, change anything and be lucky you can keep it on paper. (well that is a slight exaggeration).

    OH yea, used to have a service six in .357 it shot well.


    Just never really was a Ruger fan, I really wanted to like the #1's, just wish they were not so persnickety!
    Not sure I totally buy into the investment casting, though there is no proof that it's a problem.
    Never liked their auto.

    And yea, the old man had some real issues.