Ruger 57. 5.7x28

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Is 5.7x28 an effective woods/survival round? I just picked up a 5.7 for my rzr riding gun for defense against mtn lions wolves and black bear.
 
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IMHO, not really. There is a reason why LEO/Mil generally don't use it. It's pretty low recoil and high velocity but not much energy. I've read reports and studies showing it required many more rounds to eliminate a threat than even 9mm.

Lots of people love the round.

I havnt seen any tests or such on anything like mtn lion or bear. Mostly just human threats. I havnt looked either. I'm not a 5.7 fan. 9mm, 40, 45 all have so many great bullet options.

5.7 is fast, good for armor. Energy is a little over 200lbs. 9x19 is about twice the energy.

Quick little blurb I found on it comparing it to 22 mag and 9x19.

 
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I always hate to use this as an example since I wish it hadnt happened to even be referring to it, but in my opinion the Ft Hood shooting put to rest the counter myth/belief that 5.7 isnt a good man stopping round. There are detailed studies/analysis of that incident available, showing full sized able bodied military trained men were stopped while attempting to charge the shooter atempting to disarm him. I would have no qualms about carrying it as a self defense round, or even home defenese, and own several guns in 5.7. However, I do think that part of any shooting is psychological- a human who is shot in my opinion is more likely to stop/slow down as they will be more likely to realize they were shot, whereas a wild animal, while aware that they are hurt, may not stop or may actually go to ’fight‘ mode instead of ‘flight’ mode. Your location tag says Idaho- I would probably want to carry something with more power if the sole purpose of it were to ward off bear in the woods, better choices IMO. However if you are recoil sensitive, 5.7 is fantastic in that it is very low recoil. I have several disabled and older friends of mine who like it for that reason.

Now finding ammo to feed it, that doesn’t cost dollars a round, THAT is the real challenge!! ;-)
 
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Strong no on that one bud.
I wouldn't use anything less than .357 magnum loaded with hot loaded hardcast(like Buffalo Bore 180 grain hardcast),but ideally a .44 magnum.
5.7x28 will not penetrate enough for bear, and even if it did it had very little mass to crush through the thick bones and muscles of a bear. I mainly see it pissing off a bear.

5.7x28 is fine SD round, but a woods round it ain't.
 
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The Heretic

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The 5.7x28 is a niche round. Consider what it was designed for. Not for hunting or defense against any dangerous animal except humans, and only then in the niche that the troops it was intended for were rear echelon not very experienced with infantry weapons who needed something lightweight, low recoil with plenty of capacity in case the front line troops were overrun and/or a breakthru reached the rear echelon. It isn't meant for the troops to hold a line, but to defend themselves while getting the hell out of Dodge.

Also meant for troops that may be front line fighters, but who do not carry infantry weapons - e.g., tankers/et. al., who need compact light weapons because their environment is restricted.

As such, yes, it would be effective against cougar and bear - somewhat. Naturally it is not as effective as a .44 mag (I carry a 329PD as my "field gun").

I have six firearms in 5.7x28 - three Five Seven pistols and three PS90s. These are meant for self-defense, get home and bug out to the BOL guns. One pair for me, one pair each for the "kids" (who are adults). All three of us have health issues where weight and distance are a big concern. One person has issues with recoil and weight when holding a firearm while shooting.

The 5.7x28 firearms fit this niche - they are not the only firearms we have, but being compromised with regards to health means we need this niche. If my kids need to bug out to my BOL (where I live), then carrying a Five Seven & PS90 with 300 rounds of ammo (for each person) with less weight than an AR & Glock and half the ammo, is an advantage.

I literally have cougars and bear on my property - both come within spitting distance of my house (generally after dark though). Even so, I usually do not go around armed, except after dark, and even then not that often. During the day I only see deer - maybe a coyote.

The 5.7x28 is not optimum for a "field gun", but it isn't useless either - better than a rimfire (magnum or not) - just be prepared to expend multiple rounds if you need to use it in defense against animals. Oh, and the Ruger? Keep an eye on it for rust.
 

CountryGent

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Candidly, it wouldn't be my first pick. Instead it would be a .357 Magnum with peppy loads, a .44 Magnum, or if one is set on an automatic, a 10×25㎜ Auto. (I've carried revolvers in the two aforementioned afield plenty of times, but only recently acquired an automatic in the latter.)

Anyway, good luck with you selection, and if we may help, I'm sure we can. :)
 
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Does the 5.7X28 outperform the .22WMR by as much as it outcosts it?
.22 WMR average: 37 gr @ 2000 fps = 343 ft/lb
5.7X28 average: 23-31 gr @ 2350-2800 fps = 344-400 ft/lb
Answer - probably not.
For high velocity with penetration the .30 Tok makes a pretty good poor man's 5.7X28, and the TT33 has that slender grace of the 1908 Colt but with a lot more whack. BTW, the .30 Tok can be had in JHP which I would think makes it a lot more effective for SD against bipedal predators.
Did you acquire the 5.7 for that specific purpose, or are you using it because that's what you have? I would prefer => .357 Mag, and in any case no < 9X19 for SD against bear, cougar, chupacabra, etc.
 

The Heretic

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By cost? No. But then that depends on what you paid for the ammo.

I paid an average of 30-40¢ per round for about 10K rounds of 5.7. Today .22 WMR is double that.

Also if you look at the actual velocity from actual firearms, especially revolvers, you will see the difference in velocity is much greater.


Look at the bottom table for real velocities - not advertised velocity.

Even from a semi-auto pistol, you are not getting anywhere near 2K fps:


On top of that - rimfire ammo is not the best for self-defense compared to centerfire - most RF ammo is not made to self-defense reliability standards.

The .22 TCM is much closer to 5.7, is somewhat easier to reload than the 5.7 and you can get conversion kits for more common pistols than the 57 or the Five Seven. If you want to play around with .22 centerfire 2K fps that can be shot in pistols or rifle, maybe the .22 TCM is a good alternative to the 5.7?
 
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Does the 5.7X28 outperform the .22WMR by as much as it outcosts it?
.22 WMR average: 37 gr @ 2000 fps = 343 ft/lb
5.7X28 average: 23-31 gr @ 2350-2800 fps = 344-400 ft/lb
Answer - probably not.
For high velocity with penetration the .30 Tok makes a pretty good poor man's 5.7X28, and the TT33 has that slender grace of the 1908 Colt but with a lot more whack. BTW, the .30 Tok can be had in JHP which I would think makes it a lot more effective for SD against bipedal predators.
Did you acquire the 5.7 for that specific purpose, or are you using it because that's what you have? I would prefer => .357 Mag, and in any case no < 9X19 for SD against bear, cougar, chupacabra, etc.
I load various flavors of 7.62x25mm. I can attest to the 85gr JHP tok packing a punch! Audiably and visually much more punch at 100 yards than 9mm per my sight in on steel yesterday plus various other experiments. I also load 110gr subs. Brass still goes into orbit.

Plus, Tok is a lot easier to load for. 30 carbine bullets, small pistol primer and your medium burn powder of choice making cost not too bad. Over the last few years new manufacture brass case tok has run me about the same to buy as cheap brass case .223.

As far as the platform for tok you can do the TT33 and it's variants or the CZ52 space gun. (Never trust that decocker!) There are ARs chambered in it which is just a barrel and an opened up bolt face (same head diameter as 9mm for a DI 9mm bolt would work too or do block back tok), 1911s in tok (my next pistol build), etc. Lotta options all the way up and including mac pistols, rifles and SMGs, etc.
 

CountryGent

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There is indeed a lot going for the 7.62×25㎜ Tokarev. It is a round I wouldn't mind shooting a bit more. The one handgun I had in said was a Yugoslavian M57 and, man, what a pile. A sample of one, of course, but I've seen the same issues I encountered reported plenty elsewhere. I've been told the TT33 and Romanian derivatives are solid though.
 
OP
Glock10MM
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When I'm in brown bear country I generally carry my G29 with G20 mags loaded with underwood hard cast and also I keep the tac14 loaded with slugs and buckshot close. My hopes were that this would be a gun I could carry on my chest with light weight, high capacity, and a little more distance than my revolvers or glocks, I ended up in a coyote den last summer and unloaded my g29 into the pack of dogs and only hit one because they were just too far out, ultimately I could throw one of my AR's in the rzr but I was hoping to just get a dual purpose versatile pistol that I could reach out to 50 yards or less and take out a coyote or mountain lion or armed tweeker.
Ammo is my worst fear as I can literally find none and nobody wants to give any up for sale or trade.
 
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...

As far as the platform for tok you can do the TT33 and it's variants or the CZ52 space gun.
...
A roller-locked pistol! Neato.

 

GWS

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Is 5.7x28 an effective woods/survival round? I just picked up a 5.7 for my rzr riding gun for defense against mtn lions wolves and black bear.
No
You need immediate stopping power when you're up against a cougar or bear and the 5.7 would need a miraculous shot to do that.
Get a 10MM/.357 or better still, something even bigger.
 

The Heretic

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Oh - I did not notice you were in Idaho. I would not carry a 5.7 handgun in the woods of Idaho unless I had a rifle along also.

We have no brown bears in Orygun so I am not too worried about bear encounters. Even a cougar will think twice if you put a bunch of 5.7x28 into him or her. Not optimum, but since I often go around unarmed altogether, spending 99$ of my time on my property, a Five Seven is okay and better than nothing.

Coyotes? They get big here - plenty of deer and domestic pets for them to feed on.
 
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A roller-locked pistol! Neato.

A true roller lock too like an MG42. Not a HK delayed blowback roller lock.

Its a neat pistol. Known for a super sketchy decocker and a firming pin that breaks if you dry fire it.
 
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The .30 Tok was designed and adopted during Stalin's reign of terror. Like most Russian/Soviet military pistols it was designed more for keeping order amongst surly conscripts and gunning down political enemies of The State than for engaging the enemy. Persuading people to charge into withering fire sometimes required popping a couple of shirkers, and that was the primary use. (Think of the scene in Stalingrad where the commissars are shooting people jumping off of the boats, although those are 1895 Nagants). Also, felt was commonly used for overcoats because it was cheaper than woven material, and shooting through it required greater penetration than the Nagant delivered. Thus, the .30 Tok. Whether it killed or produced an immediate 1-shot stop was irrelevant - it caused severe injury requiring treatment. Show up with a GSW and the NKVD was there.
 

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