Rossi 410 issue

[boattail]

I am having an issue with my wife's Rossi youth model single shot break action 410 shotgun. Upon firing the action is unlocking. When the recoil cycle is finished you are holding a gun with the action cracked open. It does not do it every time but better than 50% of the time. I confirmed a good solid shoulder placement still unlocks the action when fired. We were firing 2 3/4" target loads and not the 3" field loads I also have.

Anyone have any ideas what may be happening?

The engagement is a wide steel flap that is retracted to the rear to unlock the barrel. It has approx 3/8" of engagement on the notched side of the barrel. I will be pulling things apart and checking spring tension and anything else I can see. This is a new gun with less than 50 rounds through it. The first 40 rounds were flawless. At first I thought my wife was bumping the button to open the action when she cocked the gun but that is not the case.

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[Member 34319]

Sorry to double check what you are saying, I confuse easily.

Are you stating that the action opens on its own upon firing? The recoil is unlocking the latch and the action will be unlocked after firing?

You verify that the action is fully closed? IE before firing can you still break the action after you close it? If that's the case, perhaps the action is too tight of tolerance and you really need to ensure the lug engages and the action is locked.

Most singles shouldn't open. The angle of the lug shouldnt allo the action to unlock when locked. Unless physical moved out of the way, depressing the thumb lever (I'm pretty sure Rossi uses a thumb lever).

My guess is the lug is tight tolerance and not actually closing when you think it is.

 

[boattail]

Yes, action is opening by itself upon firing. I made sure it was fully closed and tired to break it open over my knee before firing once the problem was noticed.

I got brave and pulled the trigger assembly out of the gun. The spring for the latch is housed in the trigger housing. Nothing looked out of place. I gave the spring a little stretch and reinstalled everything.

Word of warning for anyone taking the trigger assembly out.....it is a royal pain to get back in. I had to make a short pin to get everything pinned back in. Getting the action release spring and the hammer spring where they need to be takes a few tries and once in place you can push the temp pin out with the real pin to get it all back together. I strongly suggest making one of these pins first that was the trigger stays intact. My temp pin measures .187" diameter and .670-.673 long to fit in the action and still grab all the trigger parts. Oh, the pins on the receiver push out left to right.

 

[boattail]

Here is the engagement area on the barrel....the latch rides up the 45* ramp. I applied some grease onto the lath and you can see the engagement area where it transferred the grease.

https://imgur.com/Sezt4Tj

Here is the latch that slides up the ramp to engage the lock...

https://imgur.com/R76T7et

Here is the thumb release without the barrel in place. Notice the little hole in the side of the release near the receiver.

https://imgur.com/pij2dRP

And here it is with the barrel in place. Notice the little hole is not as high as before. The camera angle is different and makes it look a lot lower than it really is.

https://imgur.com/emIxmnA

My thought is the thumb latch needs to not be all the way up when locked onto the barrel in order to keep it tight and allow for wear. Spring tension against the latch is holding it in place and as parts wear the slack will be taken out of the thumb latch. It could be that a little polishing is in order to get a tad more engagement.

 

[bcp]

Make sure the latch and the notch in the barrel lug are clean and dry, No oil or grease. Then try it again.

Bruce

 

[Member 34319]

Hard to tell how much engagement is occurring with the pictures and grease.

If you keep your thumb on the release, while closing the action do you feel it move your thumb down as the lug depresses the catch the back up as it locks into place? How much more up is the lever with the barrel is tilted and not in contact versus after closed? The same?

 

[Member 34319]

You can also mark the thumb lever when the action is open and the latch is all the way forward. The close the action and see if it lines up. If not the latch and lug aren't fully lined up for some reason.

 

[drstrangelove]

That filthy latch bar looks fractured. Big irregular semicirular chunk missing. Rossi steel at it's finest.

 

[boattail]

The latch drops .116" when closed on the barrel. I did take the ramp and gave it a polish with some 1500 just to smooth it out. Here is the after picture.

https://imgur.com/j0JRvFH

The latch is not chipped it's just filthy in the picture. With everything clean and dry the latch still falls in the same spot when closed. I'm going to leave it there and shoot it again before I try to do anymore to it. Maybe my thinking is not right but if that lever rises all the way back up with the barrel in place there would be no room for wear and the action would get loose...those are my thoughts.

Also, the engaging surface of the latch is very well machined and polished. It has a curve to it and looks very nice.

 

[bcp]

Different rifle but same style locking system:

Action opening on firing

Action opening on firing

www.gboreloaded.com

Bruce

 

[Velzey]

Grease it and be slightly aggressive with it while closing. Helps seat the lug into the full lock position.
Could take it apart and take a file stroke or two ( or twenty) across the locking surface.
Use a black marker on the lug and check for proper contact.

 

[deadeye]

Yes, action is opening by itself upon firing. I made sure it was fully closed and tired to break it open over my knee before firing once the problem was noticed.

I got brave and pulled the trigger assembly out of the gun. The spring for the latch is housed in the trigger housing. Nothing looked out of place. I gave the spring a little stretch and reinstalled everything.

Word of warning for anyone taking the trigger assembly out.....it is a royal pain to get back in. I had to make a short pin to get everything pinned back in. Getting the action release spring and the hammer spring where they need to be takes a few tries and once in place you can push the temp pin out with the real pin to get it all back together. I strongly suggest making one of these pins first that was the trigger stays intact. My temp pin measures .187" diameter and .670-.673 long to fit in the action and still grab all the trigger parts. Oh, the pins on the receiver push out left to right.

similar to the H&R's yes a pin does help........

 

[aflineman]

Look in the barrel fitting section for Handi Rifles/shotguns at Greybeards outdoor forum. Good info, on a very similar design.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I bought a used rossi single shot with three barrels.
Took it out shooting and wondered why I bought the POS.
Cheapest steel you could find. Couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

 

[boattail]

Thanks for the links and the confirmation that the latch needs to have some slack when the action is closed. I will test fire it now that I polished the interface and see if that was enough to fix the issue. I have to give the gun a good cleaning next and will make sure to keep that interface clean and dry.

I know Rossi is not a top brand but I do have a lever action carbine 38/357 from the 80's that has been flawless. It is my wife's favorite gun to shoot and she shoots it well. I picked up this Rossi 410 for a 73 old gal that needed a shotgun and she backed out at the last minute so I had my wife do the paperwork for it since I had already paid for it and I wanted my wife to have her name on a few of our guns. I mounted a light at the end of the barrel and this little 410 is one of her bedside guns that we can grab in a hurry. I have a few cheaper guns stashed around the house for quick access that I won't worry too much about if they are ever lost in a house fire.

Another cheap 410 like the Rossi is the Pointer Pup. I have one of those as well and picked it up from the same 73 year old gal. When I finally got her ready to buy a shotgun the Pointer was all that we could find and she wanted a gun right away. I had her buy it and she ended up where she could not operate the controls as the break action release also cocks the mainspring and does not use an exposed hammer. She got by with it until I found her a used Marlin 54. That Marlin is a sweet little gun and being bolt action she could operate it. So, I traded her the Marlin for the Pointer. I really did not need the Pointer but it folds in half without taking it apart. I cut the barrel down to 20" and now the gun folds to a total length of 20" and a width of around 7" at the butt/barrel muzzle end when folded. It fits inside my range bag and will drop in a backpack or slide under the seat of the truck. That gun has not had any issues but it did need some clean up of rough interfaces and a few balls of weld slag removed off of parts. It makes the Rossi look like a fine Italian shotgun!

I never had a need for a 410 and ended up with three last year just trying to get one for a friend. Now that I have two I kinda like the little guys. Maybe someday I can get a nice high quality one but the two little cheap beaters will do for now.

 

[HighlandLofts]

Sell it and go buy a H&R Handi-Rifle.

 

[osprey]

I have a rossi snake charmer in .410 that resides mostly on the boat during halibut season and gets very limited maintenance. It stays in battery through firing cycle and has been very reliable. While their qc may lack a bit a single shot .410 is not an overly complicated firearm and I think even rossi gets it right most of the time. I would have to guess on yours the locking latch is not going completely into recess due to excess length/roughness and I think Velzey gave some good advice. This thread reminded me I own one so I took mine out a showed it some love with a clp tune up!

 

[Hemlock]

Completely degrease the ramp and latching lug and leave it bare. Never grease latching lugs on break open shotguns!

 

[Deavis]

I have the same gun and also took it apart as an errant pellet wedged itself in there some where and I couldnt get it out.

Reassembly was a complete PITA!!!!

I polished those locking surfaces lightly and dont recall having it unlock on firing but thats something to keep an eye on!