Rock Island Armory 2011?

[Jcon268]

Yay or nay?

Every iota in me wants to resist "cheaping out" on anything less than the best but sometimes there are choices to be made. Which brings me to ....Rock Island Armory.

They're cheap. Obviously, this tells me corners have been cut. The question is... which corners?
The corners that would make it less than fully reliable as a home defense pistol? Is this a "range toy only" mfg?

I don't shoot competition but I believe a gun should always go bang when you pull the trigger.
2011 capacity is twice the 1911 capacity, popularized and patented by STI.

TAC Ultra FS HC 9MM 17rd

Rock Island's TAC Ultra FS HC introduces a full tactical rail and is built with a double stack magwell with 17-round capacity.

armscor.com

Read More

 

[Kruel J]

Scrape that RIA logo off and stamp STI on it and I'm in!

 

[Jcon268]

Scrape that RIA logo off and stamp STI on it and I'm in!

Absolutely! I've heard rumors that Armscor actually designed a couple of STIs entry models. So we know they can build guns...again it's all about which corners are cut. It's the refinement that takes time and ends up costing you the extra $1k. Some of that money, like anything, buys the name.

 

[Kruel J]

Absolutely! I've heard rumors that Armscor actually designed a couple of STIs entry models. So we know they can build guns...again it's all about which corners are cut. It's the refinement that takes time and ends up costing you the extra $1k. Some of that money, like anything, buys the name.

I looked at a RIA 1911 in .22 WMR today. If I would have had the funds, it would have followed me home. I'm a total .22 magnum whore.

 

[Cerberus Group]

That's a bit misleading. STI commissioned Armscor to build some entry level 1911s at the price point to match others like it.

At the time, I had met some people who were at STI at the time...and all cringed at seeing the STI name on such a low end product.

 

[Jcon268]

That's a bit misleading. STI commissioned Armscor to build some entry level 1911s at the price point to match others like it.

At the time, I had met some people who were at STI at the time...and all cringed at seeing the STI name on such a low end product.

Low end in comparison to what? That's what I'm trying to determine here. A lot of guns could be considered low end against STIs $2k to $3k price tag. For what it's worth, I've read more than a couple of cases of STIs being sent back to the factory for tuning. They all seemed to be taken care of but that's a matter of service.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Low end comparison to the Rock Island, High Standard, Springfield etc.

Unfortunately, the best kept STI secret was the Lawman series. Both the 4.0 and 5.0 models were just a bit over 1k in price...between 1,200 and 1,500 price point...and were twice the 1911 compared to any other for the price.

Can still find new specimens floating around the gun sale sites.

Having STI stamp their name on an Armscor made 1911, is like Jaguar putting their plaque on a Ford Pinto.

 

[bbbass]

Well, I'd buy an RIA .22TCM just for fun.

I owned, and carried, a full size Para Ordnance (Canada early model) P14.45 2011 and loved it. But honestly if it's only going to be a home defense weapon, who needs more than 7+1??? - jk

 

[Cerberus Group]

If I recall correctly, the STI model made by Armscor was the Trojan...there may be others.

The problem with low end 1911s , they have a higher percentage of failure...which in turn gives the platform a bad name.

I don't believe one has to spend 2k to get a good runner, but you'll most likely will need to go around 1k or + to get something less troublesome.

There are plenty of low end models humming right along.

Cut corners? Over fit and finish, not just the parts you can see, but under the hood. Starting with interior machining of the frame. Fitting of the entire fire control parts, and materials used.

Details in using the properly made parts, with appropriate cuts, detents, spring winding, staking etc.

If you have time, come up and I'll go over the platform with you, and how the parts were originally designed, and what we now have lowered the standard to.

I also offer a 1911 armorer course, check the review on my website and on here...there's a thread I believe in the education area.

 

[Jcon268]

If I recall correctly, the STI model made by Armscor was the Trojan...there may be others.

The problem with low end 1911s , they have a higher percentage of failure...which in turn gives the platform a bad name.

I don't believe one has to spend 2k to get a good runner, but you'll most likely will need to go around 1k or + to get something less troublesome.

There are plenty of low end models humming right along.

Cut corners? Over fit and finish, not just the parts you can see, but under the hood. Starting with interior machining of the frame. Fitting of the entire fire control parts, and materials used.

Details in using the properly made parts, with appropriate cuts, detents, spring winding, staking etc.

If you have time, come up and I'll go over the platform with you, and how the parts were originally designed, and what we now have lowered the standard to.

I also offer a 1911 armorer course, check the review on my website and on here...there's a thread I believe in the education area.

Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. My knowledge mostly exists on the AR platform and I know there are a lot of people who believe that because "it works" or I put a measly 1,000 rounds through without problem that it's going to be as reliable or run like a top for the next 20,000 or more rounds. What I also know about the AR platform is there are builds centered around accuracy which competition shooters are focused on as opposed to a combat firearm capable of shooting "minute of man" sized groups. I know how prized STIs are, I guess I was unsure if it was all those refinements to get that extra accuracy that set them apart or if it was that's what it takes to get a decent shooting, reliable pistol.

 

[Jcon268]

Well, I'd buy an RIA .22TCM just for fun.

I owned, and carried, a full size Para Ordnance (Canada early model) P14.45 2011 and loved it. But honestly if it's only going to be a home defense weapon, who needs more than 7+1??? - jk

I think 10 rounds is my minimum. I've had lesser cap mags and always felt like I was spending more time changing mags than I ought to be and it's for HD but also for range fun

 

[Sporting Systems]

The ultra series Rock pistols are not bad, and I'm a self admitted snob on 1911s. We stock a number of the higher end Ultra series in 22 tcm, 45 and 10mm. The entry levels are OK for the price. They go bang.

 

[Cerberus Group]

The accuracy of a 1911 is dependant on one thing only, that is consistent barrel lock up...shot to shot. The lock up itself consists of four things; muzzle to bushing to slide fit, barrel hood to breech face fit, upper barrel lugs to slide fit, and lower lug/link fit. Then there's barrel timing to round out the consistency package.

The problem with lower end guns, they will dive into a box of parts until they find one that will operate on that particular gun, not paying attention to much of the above.

1911s have an extremely bad habit...this is, just because they are running, doesn't mean they are running correctly. Which means they can chew on themselves, and if not aware of the signs to look for, will end up imploding themselves with failures such as sheared lower barrel lugs, upper barrel lugs crashing, and barrel springing due to improper bushing fit.

Because of tolerances being overly large on some, they will run but incur much premature wear...and sometimes parts breakage.

 

[bbbass]

A lot will depend on whether you shoot a double stack or single stack better. Some people's grip works better with one or the other... not to say that a shooter can't learn and successfully convert.

FYI, many IDPA shooters use 10rd single stack 1911 mags. But I have seen some brands that aren't so good.

 

[Jcon268]

A lot will depend on whether you shoot a double stack or single stack better. Some people's grip works better with one or the other... not to say that a shooter can't learn and successfully convert.

FYI, many IDPA shooters use 10rd single stack 1911 mags. But I have seen some brands that aren't so good.

I feel comfortable with a slightly larger area to grip but I can always swap out grip panels to get a different feel I suppose

 

[bbbass]

I feel comfortable with a slightly larger area to grip but I can always swap out grip panels to get a different feel I suppose

Try a few... depending on brand, and on the person, sometimes even narrow grip panels can't help. I like a wide grip, so 2011 works for me. I like wide so much that I had to add a Hogue wrap to my SR9c (purposely built narrow for carry) because it didn't feel right.

 

[Jcon268]

Try a few... depending on brand, and on the person, sometimes even narrow grip panels can't help. I like a wide grip, so 2011 works for me. I like wide so much that I had to add a Hogue wrap to my SR9c (purposely built narrow for carry) because it didn't feel right.

My grip tends to ride pretty high on the frame. My left thumb rides right along the frame below directly below the slide and sometimes with a narrow grip, the fingers on my right hand are so wrapped around that it messes with my support hand placement. Could just be my grip. Could I retrain myself? Yes. Do I want to? Nah.

 

[bbbass]

My grip tends to ride pretty high on the frame. My left thumb rides right along the frame below directly below the slide and sometimes with a narrow grip, the fingers on my right hand are so wrapped around that it messes with my support hand placement. Could just be my grip. Could I retrain myself? Yes. Do I want to? Nah.

I agree! The wide grip gives me a flat platform for the palm of the support hand... I think it's more stable... but I'm not an instructor.

 

[Jcon268]

The ultra series Rock pistols are not bad, and I'm a self admitted snob on 1911s. We stock a number of the higher end Ultra series in 22 tcm, 45 and 10mm. The entry levels are OK for the price. They go bang.

They look quite nice on the web page. Looks aren't everything of course since you can make everything look good on a web page. I'd like to see the fit and finish of one in person, just out of curiosity, at some point.

 

[Fieryotaku]

Take my advice and spend the money to buy a STI 2011. I own 3 STI's and an Infinity 2011 I didn't want to carry them because of how expensive they were. I bought the 9mm 22TCM combo hi cap rock island I could not get through more than 10 rounds before I had failure to feeds I sent it in and it turns out they shipped it with the wrong barrel a non ramped when it should have had a ramped one. 3 months after i got it back my thumb safety stopped working and my mags stopped locking the slide back at this point I threw it in my safe and have not touched it since.