RMR’s are they really needed.

[American123]

I know for certain that WA state SWAT uses Glock 34s with RMRs. @No_Regerts can confirm this (that's how I found out )

Technology has improved a lot in the last 5 years. Over time I expect it to slowly take over the pistol market like the red dot did for the rifle market. It seemingly is already doing that.

Biggest change will be for pistol manufacturers to make many pistols, red dot ready, the regular purchaser was not going to buy a pistol and then send it to be milled for a red dot. They need something "ready to go" either out of the box, or with very minimal effort. Seems that is already where we are at right now too.

Opticsplanet had a killer sale on the Holosun 509T not that long ago. Only difficulty I am finding is that the installation screws are too long for the Glock MOS system so I need to file them down for it to sit flush.

 

[L84Cabo]

Absolutely worth it. Key plus is that they allow you to focus on the threat, and not the front sight post. There is, however, a learning curve to them. It takes some training before most people are able to pickup the dot on the draw. After that, everything else is better IMO. YMMV.

 

[RVTECH]

Yea I had 'kind of' hoped I had found a dot to work better for me than what I discovered as I was considering one for my Ruger PCC but I do very well with its stock peep sight - and as soon as I machine a dovetail adapter for the muzzle end it is going to get a globe for the front sight.

 

[titsonritz]

China benefits either way. I said it's futile because products sold from china are unavoidable in the technological era. We can pretend to avoid it, but china is getting theirs.

We are going to have to agree to disagree, have fun with your Holosuns, I'll be sticking with my RMRs.

 

[Kruel J]

In all the news stories of all the shootings I've read....not even ONCE have I seen anything mentioned about what kind of sight the gun had.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Irons are more forgiving, red dots will instantly reveal deficiency in ones grip, this is why you see people "fishing" for the dot and all too often give up.

I went with a rear milled slot for the optic, and it's trivial to start out using the front sight and the frame of the optic as a sort of ghost ring setup. Everything just lines up. Maybe just me.

On guns where the irons don't co-witness it takes a lot more practice and discipline IME.

 

[Kruel J]

We are going to have to agree to disagree, have fun with your Holosuns, I'll be sticking with my RMRs.

Yup, same.

 

[Member 34319]

I didn't like them until I tried the Vulcan reticle Holosun model. It has a big arse ring that makes finding the dot silly easy. My main gripe was that I had a hard time finding the dot and getting used to holding the pistol lower than you normally would using regular sights. The Vulcan reticle makes for fast red dot acquisitions on target, which means I would trust it on a personal defense pistol. You don't see the ring when aligned correctly, but you will when you aren't and it makes correcting your alignment instinctual. Something I've found different than a red dot on a rifle where your cheek weld aids in alignment and it isn't that much of an issue.

 

[Dinglenutz]

We are going to have to agree to disagree, have fun with your Holosuns, I'll be sticking with my RMRs.

I have both and like both. I don't have anything I count on that requires a battery.

 

[titsonritz]

I have both and like both. I don't have anything I count on that requires a battery.

And that is why one should have an optic cut slide and suppressor height sights to co-witness for back up. It is true of a rifle and a pistol, have redundant sighting systems and don't worry about batteries, it is an 1990's aurgument.

 

[03A3Sporter]

Necessary, no, but then again, the way the shooting industry and military ultimately follow the competition world, they have become far more popular as the technology has improved.

If you are a crappy shot with iron sights, you will still be a crappy shot with a red dot though. Same way that someone with a laser still sucks if they aren't good without it.

You are partially right if you look at marksmanship holistically , but you are mostly wrong there are lots of studies that have proven individual shooter accuracy goes up with the use of a collimated red dot sight. There are quite a few reasons for this most importantly though is that the shooter can keep both eyes open and simply place the dot on the target (no alignment of front / rear sights necessary ) and the bullet goes where it should. Additionally the shooter acquires the target faster .

Having said that while a poor or marginal shooters scores will improve and markedly so in many instances, the minute they are required to use irons their shooting suffers .

I have witnessed the above my self many times , even the most inexperienced shooters will average more hits using a red dot over a magnified scope or irons .

 

[Sector1]

Red dot optics are a double edged sword. Personally I love my 507k. That being said I learned to shoot irons and was pretty darn good. When I got the Holosun, my draw to fire suffered. That's only because you have to practice the "new" sight alignment. It requires a different press out to aquire the dot everytime. After my trip to the range with the 507k I had some doubts. Just be honest with yourself and don't expect immediate results.
This is no different than learning Iron sights though. With a dot, You just take one step back, then two steps forward in the end. Now my draw to 1st shot is faster than ever and my hits group better than ever also.

 

[Dinglenutz]

And that is why one should have an optic cut slide and suppressor height sights to co-witness for back up.

Yep, I have that. Still won't have anything I count on that requires a battery. Belt and suspenders here.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Now my draw to 1st shot is faster than ever and my hits group better than ever also.

Yeah, now that I can see the sights again ... lol

 

[Sector1]

Yeah, now that I can see the sights again ... lol

I run a G48 with a slide cut and 507k. My stock height sights align through the optic. This is my 1st pistol dot, do other dots not allow use of stock sights with a slide cut?
I thought that's what the cut did, align stock sights through the glass. I thought suppressor heights was for, well suppressed pistols. Are you guys running slide cuts, dots AND supressor height sight on non suppressed pistols?

 

[titsonritz]

Yep, I have that. Still won't have anything I count on that requires a battery. Belt and suspenders here.

All you have to do to compensate is have a regular battery change schedule, example: My Aimpoint Micros have a battery life of 50,000 hours on setting 8, which is where I keep it, 50K is over 5 years, I change the batteries in my Micros on Leap Day whether they need it or not. On top of that I have fixed iron sight for immediate back up and have a spare battery on board via a KAC cap. An RMR battery will last 4 year on setting 4, I change those out every even year 4th of July. On top of it all I keep tons of CR2032 batteries around which power my RMRs, Micros and LPVOs. In short, whether an optic uses a battery or not isn't even a second thought for me, zero worry.

 

[American123]

You are partially right if you look at marksmanship holistically , but you are mostly wrong there are lots of studies that have proven individual shooter accuracy goes up with the use of a collimated red dot sight. There are quite a few reasons for this most importantly though is that the shooter can keep both eyes open and simply place the dot on the target (no alignment of front / rear sights necessary ) and the bullet goes where it should. Additionally the shooter acquires the target faster .

Having said that while a poor or marginal shooters scores will improve and markedly so in many instances, the minute they are required to use irons their shooting suffers .

I have witnessed the above my self many times , even the most inexperienced shooters will average more hits using a red dot over a magnified scope or irons .

As someone who shoots irons with both eyes open, maybe my personal experience is the exception. Since trigger pull, grip, follow through, stance, etc, all contribute to help a shooter put hits on target consistently, the red dot, or lack thereof is only 1 factor and will not fix any of the other issues that can negatively impact proficiency.

You can definitely give someone a red dot and have them be able to put a dot on a target, but in that way it is no different than a laser, and from what I have seen personally from visible laser users - many are trying to bridge a gap of shooting proficiency with gear, the same is true for pistol red dots.

 

[No_Regerts]

I know for certain that WA state SWAT uses Glock 34s with RMRs. @No_Regerts can confirm this (that's how I found out )

Tis true. Local PDs are using lots of them too.

 

[03A3Sporter]

In all the news stories of all the shootings I've read....not even ONCE have I seen anything mentioned about what kind of sight the gun had.

Quoted For Truth

 

[Knute]

Like they've been saying, red dots help you shoot better in many ways but they print. I've had three - a late model RMR and two Delta Point Pros all on Glocks, and they made me a really really good shot over iron sights.

I highly recommend trying a quality red dot…